Posted on 11/06/2001 10:13:10 AM PST by JMJ333
Don't go trying to change the subject. You said you had evidence that Jesus wasn't a Jew. Where is it?
Are you Orthodox? It was my understanding that Orthodox Christians have the same understanding of the nature of the Trinity and of Jesus as do the Catholics. That is, the Trinity is three persons in one nature. Jesus, believed to be fully God and fully man, is one person with two natures: a human nature and a divine nature (the 'hypostatic union'). The word used in the Council of Nicaea is homoousion, meaning "same essence", thus the "one in being with the Father" of the Nicene Creed. According to Orthodox Christology, you cannot separate the human person of Jesus from the divine second person of the trinity. Orthodox Christians do not believe that merely the body of Jesus died on the cross. When Jesus, as they teach, became incarnated, GOD became MAN. You cannot discount the human body of Jesus as having nothing to do with God; according to Orthodox doctrine, it has everything to do with God.
By the way, if you are a Jew, tell us how Judaism regards Jesus.
Yes, I am a Jew, and a traditional Jew at that, not a messianic one. Jews believe that Jesus was a man, a charismatic preacher, but not divine, and not the messiah. Jews believe that the messiah will be just a man, not divine or even necessarily a miracle worker. Within his lifetime, he will fulfill all of the messianic prophecies of the Hebrew scriptures. Jesus did not do so, which is why Christians teach of a second coming of Jesus, at which time they believe he will fulfill the prophecies he did not meet the first time around. There is nothing in the Hebrew scriptures which prophecies a second coming of the messiah.
See Lurking Libertarian's #99.
Hi wimpycat. Note RightWhale's #122. He hasn't even read the whole article.
"Charismatic preacher" I suspect is not the whole truth. It's like saying that Zhirinovsky is a "charismatic politician" when one really means "mad clown". Do Jews regard Christianity as heresy and Jesus' teachings as false?
I thought the article did a good job comparing the beliefs of the Pharisees to that of Jesus and especially meals. He chose table fellowship at a critical point in his ministry to pass along the most important thing there is to Catholics--the Eucharist.
It doesn't matter to me if Jews don't accept Christ. They are falliable and so are we. What matters is that we stand up for what is right--and what is happening in Israelto the Jews by the Palestinians isn't right.
Barukh haba b'Shem Adonai
Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord
Y'shua haMashiach
XeniaSt
I didn't say that God is a Jew; Jews do not believe that. Such a statement could only be made by someone who believes that God became man in the person of the Jew Jesus. The logic is clear if you accept the premise:
1. Jesus is God.
2. Jesus is a Jew.
3. Therefore, God is a Jew.
Now, Jews do not accept premise #1, so we of course do not reach the conclusion #3. A Jew is someone who is born of a Jewish mother, or who converts to Judaism. God is obviously not a descendent of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, so no, we do not believe that God is a Jew.
"Charismatic preacher" I suspect is not the whole truth. It's like saying that Zhirinovsky is a "charismatic politician" when one really means "mad clown".
I use the term 'charismatic preacher' because it fits what he did. I could have said 'itinerant preacher', and that would have suited him as well. He went from place to place, preaching in the different towns he visited. I said 'charismatic' because he developed a following. I in no way meant it to be derogatory.
Do Jews regard Christianity as heresy and Jesus' teachings as false?
Let me take these one at a time.
1. Are Jesus's teachings false?
Since we don't have any writings by his hand, but only what was recorded by his followers, we can only know what they preserved. IMO, much of what Jesus taught was true and well within the framework of traditional Jewish doctrine. (I agree with what the article that began this thread had to say about his teachings.) I have much greater problems with the teachings of Paul than I do with the teachings of Jesus. I believe that what is taught about Jesus is false.
2. Do Jews regard Christianity as heresy?
Not for gentiles. Judaism does not teach an exclusionary salvation; we do not believe that you need to convert to Judaism in order to be 'saved'. Converts are welcome, but you do not need to convert in order to escape eternal damnation. We believe that the righteous of all nations will have a place in the World to Come. Jews are bound by the Covenant and the Law; gentiles are not. A Jew who converts to Christianity is considered an apostate, not a heretic. It is wrong for a Jew to do so, because belief in a triune God and a God made man are incompatible with the Torah. Furthermore, Jews who convert generally cease to follow the Law, which is also wrong according to our scriptures.
However, gentiles, who are not under the Law, have more latitude in their beliefs. We do think your understanding of the nature of God is incorrect. But Christianity is generally considered an acceptable form of monotheism for gentiles. The Jewish philosopher and theologian Maimonides preferred Christianity to Islam because Christians accept the inspired nature of the Hebrew scriptures (Muslims think they have been corrupted). And of course the Christian moral code is essentially equivalent to that of Judaism, another point in your favor, from our perspective.
Thanks for your work, it's much appreciated. BOOKMARKED!
I quit ordering Catholic Digest in 1996 when the long-time editor, Richard Reese, died. It became too liberal for me--I couldn't take looking at Mario Cuomo and Cokie Roberts on the front--and also articles by Margaret Carlson. But I saved every last one of the old ones. :)
I will recommed one other issue, and that is Dec. 1994--the article entitles "The Face of Our Lady of Guadalupe," is spectacular. I may get around to posting it as well.
Good hunting!
Yes, they are very exciting to understand. Like the Jewish wedding ceremony. When the bridegroom and bride are betrothed, the bridegroom "goes away to prepare a place for the bride". When the time is perfect, the Father gives the signal for "the bridegroom to go and get his bride".
That is exactly how the "rapture" will take place. But ... studying how the Jewish tradition of the bride and bridegroom are handled, you can see it is the same process for the rapture; facinating!
It wasn't a trick question. I just asked you what was Paul trying to convey in Gal 3:16-29.
Paul says there was only one promised seed made to Abraham, and not seeds (v.16). The law which came 490 years after the promises were made to Abram, did not affect those promises (v.17-18).
Paul closes the chapter by saying.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Thus, all the blessings, and promises come via Abraham through the only promised seed. Abraham was justified solely by his faith, and before the law was given at Sinai.
There are believers, and non-believers. The Israelites have no temple, they have no priesthood, and therefore they have no sacrifice for their sins. The good news, is they have a God/Savior who loves them, and He will open their eyes to the gospel at a time of His choosing...
(Heavily dependent on Brown:)
Here's what Judaism and Christianity have in common:
a. monotheism
b. personhood of God
c. verbal revelation
d. God intervenes in human history
e. the coming judgement
f. ethical rigor
g. moral obligation
Here is where Judaism and Christianity diverge:
Judaism has moral obligation and the 600 odd commandments because God delivered them from captivity
Christianity has moral obligation because of the Resurrection
With Christianity comes quite an assemblage of dogma
The difference between Paganism and Christianity:
Pagan - what is truth? John 18:38
Christianity - I am the . . . truth . . . John 14:6
There might be some Pharisee attitude in this, as well as some of the rest of the Essenes, the Zealots, and the Sadducees. Whether we need an intermediary or can speak directly with God and what the nature of the intermediary (BVM, Christ, local functionary) might be seems to be a moot point among various flavors of monotheists.
How strange.....
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