Posted on 11/10/2001 2:19:30 AM PST by Quilla
Edited on 05/07/2004 6:26:27 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
Regarding the Pensacola account, Yarddog was quick to say that it was probably distorted due to the conventions of the day. I noticed that none of the accounts mention that the victim was raped or molested in any way. I found the last line of the Holmes county account to be particularly disturbing, as though intimidation were the goal with these murders rather than justice. I guess it's easier to believe that our ancestors had pure motives but that wasn't always the case.
My GGrandfather owned his own railroad. There were good roads from Westville to Pensacola (The old Spanish Trail) plus the L&N Railroad ran straight to Pensacola. I suppose the distance could have been covered about as rapidly as today.
I am not sure what you are getting at but Pensacola was far more convenient than the tiny village of Panama City, although PC was closer.
BTW your account of a woman being caught and lying to her husband, and accusing Negroes is even farther off the mark than that other sleazebag.
Did it ever occur to you that you are talking about two seperate incidents? There was apparently quite a number of racially-motivated murders in that part of the state in the early 20th century. The mob violence resulting from the death of your grandmother was hardly unique.
Sorta strange that as close as the mid-20's a black midwife was assisting with white births in the area - described as "a very old colored woman"! The lady had guts.
Having taken some graduate courses as a white at a predominantly black university, let me assure you the idiocy in academia cuts both ways. The bookstore actually carried bumper stickers and license plate holders that said "Black by popular demand." You think the Auburn bookstore has anything similarly racist for sale to its student body?
This predominantly black university was under a desegregation order and was suppose to be bringing in as many of us "minority" whites as they could.
I really abhor racist stupidity regardless of the color of skin that covers it.
I'm not surprised to hear of a black midwife. Remember that most of those people had grown up with slavery, or at least with first-hand accounts of life during slavery and were living under Jim Crow at the time. Black people were seen as laborers and servants, more as objects than anything else. I caught a bit of an interview with Jimmy Carter where he spoke about sharing sleeping quarters with black people on his parents farm during the depression. He said that they played together almost, but not quite, as equals and that as they grew up they grew apart and that his parents encouraged the separation. Whatever else I think of Jimmy Carter, he was certainly a Georgian.
I do not know any other way to put this but to say that you are flat out lying. As I said the account which one of you posted is nearly exactly right. The tiny errors were of no importance but I pointed them out to keep the story straight.
Of course you made up all kind of fantastic assumptions and, as I said, just plain out lies, about it.
It really is getting to be lala land now. Since one of you posted something really stupid, you don't just admit it, instead you say there were so many lynchngs going on that it must have been true.
At first I thought you were just really stupid, now I realyze you are just posting nonsense thinking it is fun. I guess it would be if the subject were not so sad.
"Instead, black students show a healthy skepticism toward attending college on a campus where they would have to endure overt racism of the sort displayed by the dolts of Delta Sigma Phi and Beta Theta Pi."
As you point out, this was anything but "overt racism". And the "dolts of Delta Sigma Phi and Beta Theta Pi" are obviously, and rightly, marginalized -- even within the primarily white student body.
As his her wont, Miss Cynthia is overdrawing the issue a wee bit. Fact is, the story is beneath the purview of a nationally syndicated columnist and editorial page editor of so august a publication as the Atlanta Journal-Constitution.
Now Leonia to PDL or Westville was most of a days horse ride - don't think Hwy 84 was as straight back then. I bet getting to PC was easy by way of the Choctawatchee - lots of logs were going down river then - I bet they were running steamboats as well.
Eh... no. The newspaper accounts are quite consistant that the men were not questioned separately and that their confessions were not freely given, but rather forced at gunpoint. Moreover, these men were not killed mercifully but were shot over 500 times in the mob's effort to escape the involvement of law enforcement.
Of course you made up all kind of fantastic assumptions and, as I said, just plain out lies, about it.
The newspaper accounts of the time back me up. I'm sorry you find this at odds with what is obviously a beloved family story, but as the Chinese say, The palest ink is better than the best memory.
Since one of you posted something really stupid, you don't just admit it, instead you say there were so many lynchngs going on that it must have been true.
Yes, there were a lot of lynchings at the time. Here are three of them. But we don't have to rely on half-remembered family stories and inaccurate oral histories. Instead, we have contemporary accounts. How fortunate for us.
At first I thought you were just really stupid, now I realyze you are just posting nonsense thinking it is fun. I guess it would be if the subject were not so sad.
I don't find this fun at all. I think it's sad and disturbing that you have clung to the fiction that men can be questioned by an angry, armed mob and expected to tell the truth and be mercifully killed by 500 gunshots. I think it's sad and disturbing that rather than embrace the historical record you have clung to family stories, stories which you yourself earlier admitted to having gotten wrong. For instance, you originally thought that this took place ten or more years after it actually happened, and you originally thought there were four men who were murdered by the angry mob, not three. In fact, you went so far as to claim that you saw these four men memorialized on a website about lynching, yet as it turns out, only three were murdered. Memory is an inexact thing and oral history, though charming, can't compete with recorded history.
I never said anything about this happening ten years later. The story which you posted is basically accurate. The few innaccuracies have nothing to do with the basic story. The fact that I know a lot more than was said in the article only means you are speaking from ignorance.
Just in case you are too stupid to figure this out, the fact that the article says they were brought together does not mean they weren't questioned separately. Do you get that? I suppose you don't so I will repeat it. The fact that the article says they were brought together does not mean they were not questioned separately.
The fact that one was caught and cleared pays lie to your nonsense about a crazed mob killing everyone they came across. BTW I know of one Black man who was on the side of the mob, his name was Tip Broxson.
If you are so stupid as to believe every detail of a newspaper article is accurate (I suspect you are not that stupid but that dishonest) then you don't have walking around sense. The fact is that article was much better than most, but as I said, had a few errors
You have the inredible affrontery to tell me what my own relatives told me. You also stupidly or recklessly try to tell me they were too old for me to have known.
As I said before you are a total jerk. You are distorting everything I said and everything which was in the article. you do it to the point where there is no doubt as to your integrity.
As you admitted to coming from White Trash, you even dishonor them by descending to scum.
I suppose a person could get to Panama City by taking a boat down the Choctawhatchee, then through Choctawhatchee Bay, turning East and go through West Bay and eventually get to the general area North of Panama City.
I suspect such a trip would take several days. It would have been easier to go East on the L & N then perhaps catch the Bay Line South to PC. I suspect the distance would have been greater than the absolutely direct route of Westville, to Pensacola.
People did have cars and motorcycles in 1910. I have no idea how good the roads were at the time but would not doubt they were rough as you say. I do know that the remains of a very old highway still exist East of Pensacola. It was made of red bricks.
Let me see if I have this straight,ok? You want these students JAILED because they were wearing KKK costumes? Ever hear the phrase,"Free Speech"?
Of course,but what you are overlooking is that this is "gooberment-approved" hyprocisy. Repeat after me,"Our diversity is our strength!".
The KKK came in and operated as a "shadow government" to protect the people who didn't have any other protections. They were the final "court of no appeal" the theiving and murdering scum had to face after being allowed to run free by the people now holding positions of authority. If they showed up on horseback in your yard one night and called you out to tell you to mend your ways or face being horsewhipped,this is EXACTLY what they meant. No judge,sheriff,or high-priced and politically-connected lawyer would be able to get this repealed. You either changed your ways,or you DID get horsewhipped.This applied to BOTH black AND white.
What happened to the KKK is the Dim-o-cratic Party. The KKK was becoming such a political power in the south that the KKK were holding street marches in DC by the 1920's,and they were becoming a serious threat to the leftists who ran/run the Dim Party out of the northeast.They saw the KKK as a political organization that threatened to remove them from their positions of influence and wealth,and they just couldn't allow this to happen.This is the era where gooberment agents began infiltrating the KKK to act as instigators and informers. Things really got on a roll when Kommie King Franklin and his wife/cousin took over the WH during the Depression. By the 1950's,the easiest way to find a FBI agent was to go to a KKK meeting. The ONLY non-Feebs you would see there were the locals who were too stupid to hold a job pumping gas. It became a refuge for the mentally-challenged and the criminal. All at the direction of the Dim Party. The locals who had been the backbone of the KKK in the past wanted no part of this criminal KKK,so they gave up their memberships and returned their loyalty to the Dim Party. The famous "Dixic-crats" of the past. I believe Strom Thurmond and the good (?) Senator from West Virginia (Byrd) are the only two surviving examples left serving in national politics now.
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