Defense and War: A Biblical Perspective

Lew Rockwell ^ | 11/23/01 | Ron McKenzie

[Demidog]

Ron Paul added something to define air piracy and Letters of Marque were never limited only to high seas actions.

[Gumption]

How would I know? Frankly I don't believe any was provided.

I think the leap to your conclusion, "I don't believe any was provided", is a greater leap than my opinion that convincing evidence was provided.

[Demidog]

That would certainly make alot more sense.

[Demidog]

In other words, you have never seen the evidence and none of it, by the admission of all involved, points directly to bin Laden.

[Demidog]

The methods of warfare being used in Afghanistan cannot be justified either.

I think this sentence proves you are correct in your assesment that he meant to say "doesn't."

[Gumption]

Isn't it possible that if the evidence became public domain it might itself, by its own nature, compromise the very security mechanisms that provided it in the first place? And if so, would you still want said evidence to be released to the public?

[Demidog]

Isn't it possible that if the evidence became public domain it might itself, by its own nature, compromise the very security mechanisms that provided it in the first place?

That's a nice theory but Reagan didn't let that stop him re: Libya.

You'd also have to believe that every little bit of evidence would compromise security. To add insult to injury, you'd also have to believe that the Prime minister of England is more trustworthy than the American people when it comes to this evidence. The quote you provided shows that even the evidence that does exist cannot be linked to bin Laden in any substantial way. Laden has denied his involvement. Not that I believe him to be trustworthy but I don't find our government officials to be trustworthy either. If you're willing to accept the word of government officials who have more to lose by telling the truth than lying, that's your call. I don't buy it.

[Republican Wildcat]

The Taliban didn't change much re the status of women in Afghanistan.

As I'm sure you probably know, that is not true. You seem to be making a habit of saying things that are blatantly false. On your last thread you claimed the U.S. had made no effort to arrest associates of the Sept. 11 terrorists, which, of course, was also false. How stupid do you think we are?

[Republican Wildcat]

Give me a break. They found plans for the attacks in government buildings after the fall of Kabul. No evidence? Where have you been the last 2 1/2 months?

[Gumption]

If you're willing to accept the word of government officials who have more to lose by telling the truth than lying,

Ok last question then I won't bother you further. What is the basis of your gut opinion that the (our) government would have more to lose by lying about the source of the attack? Was it really the Jews or what?

[Demidog]

They found plans for the attacks in government buildings after the fall of Kabul.

Much more convincing are the plans they found on the folks who committed the first WTC bombing 3 years ago. And those folks do not have ties to bin Laden. Furthermore have you seen these plans? Do they involve suicide airline pilots?

How do you know they weren't drafted soon after we started bombing?

[He Rides A White Horse]

War is only justified for defence (Romans 13:1-8). It should not be used to expand a nation's boundaries, or to take control of another nation, or to extract trade advantages. This is a fundamental principle. A nation should never need to establish military domination in another region or nation.

Romans 13:1-8

13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.

13:5 Wherefore [ye] must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute [is due]; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

How did you arrive at your summation?

[He Rides A White Horse]

3.A Christian nation must not have a large "standing army"(Deut 17:16; 1 Kings 10:26-29). An army that is constantly training for war is dangerous, because it will be tempted to find a situation where it can use its skills. The military should not be given too much political power, as they will have a tendency to use war to solve all problems.

Where would they get the horses? Egypt. This probably more a command to aviod contact with them, as perhaps He did not want other things coming back----such as the usual worship of other gods, etc.

[He Rides A White Horse]

6.The army of a Christian nation will not have offensive weapons (Deut 17:16). God forbade the king from acquiring great numbers of horses for himself. The reason for this was that horses and chariots, at that time, were offensive weapons used for attacking other nations. The defence of the nation would not need large numbers of them. A modern defence force should choose weapons that are best for defensive purposes.

See previous post.

[He Rides A White Horse]

Deuteronomy 20:10-15

20:10 When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.

20:11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, [that] all the people [that is] found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee.

20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:

20:13 And when the LORD thy God hath delivered it into thine hands, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:

20:14 But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, [even] all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.

20:15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations.

First off, 20:10:

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it

This clearly describes an attack against a foreign city; not the defense of one.

20:12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it

Again, you won't find too many defenders besieging a city; this is clearly offensive in nature.

20:15--Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities [which are] very far off from thee, which [are] not of the cities of these nations.

.....far off from thee-----definitely implies an attack on a city on foreign soil.

[cyn]

Warming to big brother

[He Rides A White Horse]

9.A Christian nation should always seek God’s will before declaring war. A nation going to war, because it thinks it is right, is being presumptuous

Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

3:1To every [thing there is] a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:

3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up [that which is] planted;

3:3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

3:5 A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

3:6 A time to get, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

3:7 A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

Herein always lies the hard part.

[Gumption]

first WTC bombing 3 years ago. And those folks do not have ties to bin Laden

According to the US, Bin Laden was involved in at least three major attacks - the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 killing of 19 US soldiers in Saudi Arabia, and the 1998 bombings in Kenya and Tanzania. source

Attacks linked to Bin Laden

• 1993 World Trade Centre bomb
• 1996 Killing of 19 US soldiers in Saudi
• Nairobi and Dar es Salaam bombs
• 2000 Attack on USS Cole in Yemen

source

Bin Laden, the Saudi-born businessman believed to be holed up at a secret location in Afghanistan, tops the FBI's Most Wanted fugitive list and was implicated in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center, the 1998 attacks on two U.S. embassies in Africa and other acts of terror. In 1997, bin Laden declared that the Islamic fundamentalists he leads would wage a "jihad," or holy war, against the U.S. and Saudia Arabia. http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:1ST0hRy5sww:www.terrorismfiles.org/individuals/usama_bin_laden.html+bin+ladin+connection+1993+trade+center+attack&hl=en

Q. Why do many suspect bin Laden masterminded the New York and Washington terrorist acts?

A. Bin Laden's name surfaced in connection with acts of terror around the world, including the attacks in Saudia Arabia in November 1995 and Dhahran the following June that left 30 people dead, including 24 Americans. He is also implicated in the assassination attempt on Egyptian president Mubarak in Ethiopia in 1995; the World Trade Center bombing in 1993 that killed three and injured hundreds; and the Somali attack on American forces that left hundreds wounded. (Associated Press)

source

[Demidog]

Dubious connection even according to this article.