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To: AGAviator
Life under an occupying foreign power is not democracy. Israel is an occupying power in the Palestinian Territories which routinely deprives their inhabitants of life - by killing them in reprisal attacks, and liberty - by subjecting them to arbitrary detentions, curfews, and restrictions of their movements. Theirs is not in any way a free and democratic existence.

The State of Israel is a democratic state.

If the most critical piece of intelligence in the last 50 years wasn’t forthcoming, the “alliance” has been useless. Especially so when the attackers claimed to act from hostility towards the “alliance” and its numerous injustices it has perpetrated during the
last century.

A critical peice missed by our other allies, the British, Germans, etc. I guess all the Western alliances are useless as well.

Furthermore jihad has not come to this country. A small group of international criminals came here.

Yes it has. Your Islamic friends hopped aboard the Jihad train bound for the U.S. The Jihad kills around the world. Usually Christians but sometimes Jews as well. The international criminals are also Islamicists.

Your ignorance of American history is total and absolute.

The “Open Door Policy” refers to immigration of people into this country, not the export of goods from this country. The two couldn’t be more different.

Your ignorance is beyond comprehension. That's why I don't care to type to you and listen to your garbage. You have no comprehension of U.S. history. I'm now laughing that you think the Open Door refers to immigration.LOL! The Open Door Policy was a policy debated in the latter part of the 19th century premised on the Open Door Notes. The basic premise was the extension of U.S. interests abroad internationally through the opening of markets and economic spheres of interest. The "Open Door: won out to the closed door types (isolationalists). Since you can't get by this simple historical issue it seems to me you don't know a single thing of what your yapping about except to superficially mouth a few sayings of Washington.

Lastly, your suggestion that America has the right to impose its products on other nations and people at gunpoint (“protection of those markets by force”) throughout the world would be ludicrous, except that it’s entirely in keeping with your other delusions about America’s rightful role in the world.

Markets can only be protected by force AS NECESSARY.  Moroever, you moved the issue to one involving a defacto U.S. foreign  policy to your own self-indulgent moralistic clap-trap. Who cares about your notions of "right". I sure don't.

The founding fathers saw no need for any global alliance against Islam or any other people or religion. America did fight a war its own business

I don't know what your talking about but it sure isn't the subject under discussion.

Oh, but we have an “alliance” with Saudi Arabia. You know, “the search for markets and the protection of those markets by force if necessary.” And “intelligence.”

I never impugned alliances based on the reality of realpolitik. It is you who have taken a simplistic moralizing approach. The U.S. should make alliances based on the realities on the ground as well as supporting and moving those realities to democratic processes. I know. Too complex for your simple understanding.






 

218 posted on 12/11/2001 1:04:41 PM PST by Lent
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To: Lent
The State of Israel is a democratic state

Since millions of non-Jews who live its borders and under its occupation don’t have democratic freedoms, for America’s purposes it isn’t a democracy any more than the Soviet Union was a democracy because the Politbureau decided things by consensus.

I guess all the Western alliances are useless as well

The other allies have more to offer us than non-existent “intelligence” which you claim is the benefit of associating with Israel.

Your Islamic friends hopped aboard the Jihad train bound for the U.S. The Jihad kills around the world. Usually Christians but sometimes Jews as well. The international criminals are also Islamicists.

In Logic 1A, you will learn that “All jihadists are Islamic” doesn’t equate to “All Islamics are jihadists” however you define that.

The Open Door Policy was a policy debated in the latter part of the 19th century premised on the Open Door Notes

The “Open Door Notes” refer only to one country, China. America didn’t become a world power because it had free trade with China.

“Open-Door Policy” is a universally-accepted synonym for free immigration. You equivocate on the definition of “Open Door Policy.”

Open-Door [Immigration] Policy Here

Open-Door [Immigration] Policy Here

Markets can only be protected by force AS NECESSARY.

Markets “protected by force” are tyranny, not “free trade.”

Who cares about your notions of "right". I sure don't.

Those other 114 countries, along with their inhabitants.

I You don't know what your [sic] talking about

I never impugned alliances based on the reality of realpolitik…The U.S. should make alliances based on the realities on the ground

Realpolitik says to dump Israel. But that’s a little too harsh, so the next-best thing is to either make them conform to Western norms in every respect, or declare them a rogue state and take appropriate political, economic and ***other*** actions as necessary.

219 posted on 12/11/2001 4:07:02 PM PST by AGAviator
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To: Lent
PS. I'm not unreasonable, we can do it concurrently with Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Serbia, China, everywhere else the militarists want to go.
220 posted on 12/11/2001 4:11:28 PM PST by AGAviator
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To: Lent
Oh I forgot Russia. Just saw the US is pulling out of the ABM Treaty. Not that I care, but so much for that "alliance."
221 posted on 12/11/2001 4:15:31 PM PST by AGAviator
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