Arafat: I'm willing to sacrifice 70 to die to kill one Israeli

Independent Media Review & Analysis ^ | Date: 18 December 2001 | Aaron Lerner

[hinckley buzzard]

You keep referring to the West Bank and Jerusalem as lands that the Palestinians should get "back." You are aware, I'm sure, that these lands were never in the hands of Palestinians to begin with.

They were part of Jordan, which used them to launch their attack against Israel in 1967. Israel took control of the lands legitimately to secure their borders against further invasion and attack by a proven aggressor.

You can't give something "back" to someone who never had it in the first pace. If Israel "gave back" these lands, she would give them to Jordan.

Do you think that would advance the cause of a Palestinian state? If so, why didn't Jordan create a Palestinian state out of these lands when they had them the first time?

You see, you have sucked down the premise that what is Israel's is actually Palestine's just because some terrorists say so.

Quite shallow of you really, and stupid.

[dennisw]

Pallies||||Mexicans what's the diff? Both are 3rd world invaders who want what the 1st world has.

It's the idiot liberals who give props to them. I stopped romaticizing the 3rd world years ago. (yes I was once young and foolish)

[dennisw]

Ask HarrowUp if he is half Jewish.

[harrowup]

Finally someone who knows what he is talking about. That is what makes this conflict so difficult to solve. Positions are taken which do not reflect the facts. Of course Jordan could have and of course the PLO should not have tried to oust the King and get their butts thrown out.

It goes on and on because one lie and one mistake after another creates more chaos. Jordan shouldn't have signed a separate peace and Sharon shouldn't have gone into Shatilla and Arafat shouldn't have counted on marrying an American to give him cover.

Give up the settlements, share Jerusalem, let the Palestine State be created ... and insist that Syria, Egypt, Jordan and the other Arab States guarantee that "Palestine" will be peaceful...or they get a chance to see a need for all new military hardward.

The fact that we can trust Israel and not the PLA makes it clear we have to force the PLA to behave...half-measures and "timely" withdrawal won't work.

Get out, tell them the consequences of attacks and let the Saudis foot the bill for reconstruction. Allow the Palestinians back into Jerusalem while the agree to share Bethlehem (and make it the Palestine Capitol) while reverting to Tel Aviv as Israel's Capitol. If they continue to play the thug then reoccupy, round 'em up and ship em off the Saudis...and start drilling in Anwar.

[alpowolf]

The fact that we can trust Israel and not the PLA makes it clear we have to force the PLA to behave

"We" have to force them to behave? Surely you're not talking about the U.S. If you are, I suspect that "we" does not include you (i.e. you won't have to go, you'll send somebody else's son to do it).

Most of what you say sounds reasonable...on paper. But the people who actually live there don't see it that way. The notion that we can force them to get along on our terms is not realistic. They are going to have to figure this out for themselves. We may not care for their solution but that's life...more specifically, their lives. They are not our children, to be dictated to about how late they can stay out Friday night.

Much of the misery of the past couple of centuries has been caused by so-called statesmen who figured they could "order" the world as they saw fit, because they had a set of maps to play with. As you seem to be familiar with the recent history of the Middle East you must know this applies there as much as anywhere. The elitist meddlers are going to have to get their noses out of the Middle East. Oh, I know: if we don't do this and do that there will be bloodshed, chaos, nuclear bombs, etc. We have that now--because of the meddling. The best thing we can do now is not make it worse.

[harrowup]

"We" have to force them to behave? Surely you're not talking about the U.S. If you are, I suspect that "we" does not include you (i.e. you won't have to go, you'll send somebody else's son to do it).

The nastiness that passes for support of Israel around here is beginning to annoy me. While you have made some excellent points I am going to refrain from discussing this any further until some posters learn some manners. Many on both sides want the meddling to continue...it gives them an excuse when the next piece falls apart.

[alpowolf]

If reminding you that real people have to die every time that "we" intervene in somebody else's life insults you, that's too bad. I do not apologize for this.

The only time in my own military service that I came under fire was in a silly-ass deal like that (Multinational Peacekeeping Force, Beirut, 1983). For what? Not to defend America or its sacred principles. Because of weenies who insisted that we get involved in the Lebanese Civil War (which in fact has been going on for centuries, not that any of these dilettantes could be expected to crack a book to find out). "We're the world superpower" they whined, as if that were reason enough. Of course they didn't have to risk their slab-sided asses over it.

So I ask you to think about the real people who have to carry out your wishes before you talk of "we".

[harrowup]

You seem to be avoiding the fact that this article and specifically the title is false.

Do you suppose that could be a symptom or a cause. If I want to know about your military history I'll look you up.

[alpowolf]

the fact that this article and specifically the title is false

Well, that's your story. If you want to believe that Arafat is a "hero" or "martyr" go ahead.

If I want to know about your military history I'll look you up

Evidently I was right. You are smugly drawing lines on the maps with your magic markers and "solving" the problems of people you don't even know. If they object, you will scream for somebody else's sons to be sent to kill and die to impose your vision on the world. Thomas Sowell had it right: you people believe you have the "vision of the anointed".

If Yassir is your man, go join him. I'm sure they can use another hero.

[a_witness]

1. Get out of the occupied territories. 2. Share Jerusalem. 3. No exceptions. 4. No keeping the profitable sites. 5. Stick to the lines that the Count lost his life for.

1. We will never give up Texas, California, Arizona, Colorado, and New Mexico. Same goes for Hawaii and Alaska. Don't even think of asking again.
2. Sure, buy tickets at your travel agent and visit, but um please, return tickets and no bombs.
3. No exceptions
4. Excuse me, but we will keep Wall St.
5. What, is this a one-act play ?

The real deal
1. Negotiate trades: settlements in Judea and Samaria for Arab towns or villages within the Green Line. Oppressed Arabs can trade places with the oppressed Jews.
2. Maintain the status quo in Jerusalem sans the terrorism.
3. No exceptions
4. Keep profitable sites and make them more profitable. Reward those who abhor terrorism. Punish those who support terrorism.
5. Forget the Count already.

[harrowup]

alpowolf...You are projecting way beyond your level of sophistication.

a_witness...You're on the right track but the wrong bus and yes, the metaphors are purposely mixed.

Let's talk about the green line.

[alpowolf]

"Humph! You're not sophisticated!" Good dodge.

Please excuse me for interrupting your parlor game of Risk with that unsophisticated real-world stuff.

[boltfromblue]

A prime example of falling short of an intelligent response. I implied nothing about conspiracies, but I do imply that Jewish/Israeli advocates are only half as intelligent as normal people because they have suppressed half of their brains in the interest of not being fair enough to look at the PALESTINIAN peoples' issues, THE FACT THAT PALESTINIAN ARAB LAND WAS ARROGANTLY AND SELF-INTERESTEDLY REMOVED FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAD LIVED THERE SINCE THE BEGINNING OF A.D. WITH NO ADDRESSING OF THEIR CONCERN ABOUT THIS THEFT OR COMMUNICATION WITH THESE PEOPLE WHO HAD LIVED THERE ALWAYS, ASIDE FROM THE JEWISH INVASION B.C. Yes, I seem to have to shout to get through, as well as assist the feeble-sighted, as the visual nerves are indeed a part of the brain. Europe and America assuaged their guilt about not interferring with the German/Jewish situation by handing over a state based on Judaism to Jews. BTY, humor that addresses issues is great, but not off the mark humor. My take on this graphic's feigned or otherwise Jewish paranoia is that it is a projection of Jewish guilt that they took land that was not theirs or others to give, so they imagine others fear they will take even more from others, in the tradition of worship of the Golden Calf. Actually, it was such a tired ole theme, I didn't read it. Read one, read them all.

[boltfromblue]

See my response to "pissed off Janitor," too, in that it addresses the unfairmindedness of your ilk. If you are going to quote me, be decent and fair enough to quote a complete thought, not something incomprehensible. As to your aggressive desire for murder of me included, it is of no concern, laughable, but I am glad you posted it because it shows that you cannot argue with intelligence but prefer to resort to violence, as do Sharon, ben Laden, Hitler, Pol Pot, plus the notorious Russian and Chinese despots. Too bad you seem incapable of responding to the comments about understanding Jews in the Plato course at UCLA, which covers the history of the region inclusive of my capped statement above. But then again the only choices you seem to know are incomprehension or threats, so it is perhaps not too bad as I said.

[harrowup]

You are just too ignorant to tolerate. Sit.

[alpowolf]

You are just too ignorant to tolerate. Sit.

If you expect your sneering, snotty attitude to intimidate me you will be greatly disappointed. You speak of force far too easily, my friend.

BTW you said that the article is false. Care to back that up, Perfesser?

Excuse me again for interrupting your theoretical exercise. Reality is a real bite in the ass, ain't it?

[harrowup]

Reality is a real bite in the ass, ain't it?

You must have no ass left. Read the Arafat speech. Nowhere does he say, "...I'm willing to sacrifice 70 to die to kill one Israeli..."

Now, don't get up until you do what you are told.

[Cachelot]

in that it addresses the unfairmindedness

Unfair, bolt? Whoever told you that life was fair?

If you are going to quote me, be decent and fair enough to quote a complete though

Howzatt again? Are you unable to remember what i quoted from? Or don't you think that others can look at your post and see what I quoted from? Or do you insist that I interpret "your complete thought" in as favourable a light to you as possible? Do you have a complete thought?

You expressed your regret that the Palestinian weapons also killed Palestinians. I expressed regret that they kill anything but Palestinians. If the palies insist on killing people, let them kill themselves - preferrably in some non-messy way.

But then again the only choices you seem to know are incomprehension or threats

Where you would find a threat is as incomprehensible as your capped statement. Creative history 101? From Omar, the one-eyed mullah? Geez. You need some serious help, Palestinian. But then you all do ;).

[Cachelot]

Read the Arafat speech. Nowhere does he say, "...I'm willing to sacrifice 70 to die to kill one

So you maintain that the article is false, and that this statement:

"Israel Television Channel Two reported this evening that Arafat also told the crowd that "I am willing to sacrifice 70 martyrs to kill one Israeli" and called for a continuation of the struggle against Israel."

Is a lie. Got proof, woof? Or anything but fleas?

[veronica]

STOP spewing on every thread that there is a problem between Bush & Sharon.

Bush and Sharon are on the same page.

It is Arafat whom Bush snubs - Arafat who is out in the cold.