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Living the outlaw life:National ID — Our Line in the Sand
Backwoods Home Magazine ^ | could be 1984.. | Claire Wolfe

Posted on 01/01/2002 9:13:35 AM PST by Jhoffa_

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To: Jhoffa_
And we thought slavery was ended! Oh I know; this is "affirmative action" slavery...everybody gets to be one.
21 posted on 01/01/2002 10:14:59 AM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Re: post #5. Why?

Simple. It's because most of those who rule us were, and continue to be, fellow travelers to socialism.

The Soviets survived as long as they did because of "information", confiscation, and the fear instilled in the sheeple by the sight of frequent SWAT-equivalent violence against innocent civilians.

In his wildest dreams, Dzerzhinsky might not have imagined the current control of the serfs that is imposed by today's technology.

The main difference between fascism and communism is the location of "title of ownership" for industry/economy. Control of production, one way or another, is in government hands. Everything else, for these two forms of socialism, are more or less the same.

So, what we have here in the U.S. is a growing fascist form of socialism. This time around, the tyranny will last, as predicted in 1964, for at least a thousand years...not just 70 or 10.

Within a few years, when a few more of the sheeple wake up to the real terrorist threat, it will be too late.

WW1 (e.g. emergency war powers acts) and WW2 (e.g. payroll deduction of taxes) were used by those in power to impose "temporary" unConstitutional rules and regulations on the Nation or to simply throw out/sidestep "temporarily" Constitutional guarantees, all in the name of some "external threat". None of these "temporary" abrogations of the former Constitution were ever undone!

What can be done? Nothing. This past election was the last and only chance to restore the Republic and the freedom and liberty it used to protect.

For a while, it seemed, with perceived Constitutionalists like Ashcroft in place, that something might be done. It was similar to the hopes held when the Republcans re-gained control of congress.

However, we were rewarded, for 1994, at the hands of the Republocrats, with the greatest loss of Constitutional guarantees in our history. Now, once again, we see that it isn't known enemies (demoncruds) that we really have to fear. It is those we assume are our friends/allies.

This administration is on the verge of finalizing Ronald Reagan's prophecy.

22 posted on 01/01/2002 10:15:13 AM PST by SuperLuminal
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To: Billy_bob_bob
Blacks traveling pre-Civil War were required to provide papers in order to pass freely, if I recall the history correctly.
23 posted on 01/01/2002 10:20:00 AM PST by sweetliberty
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: SuperLuminal
So, what we have here in the U.S. is a growing fascist form of socialism.

Many of the Nazi's initiatives seem absolutely progressive today:

Environmental protection regulations.
Family leave for new parents.
Occupational health & safety regulations.
Full employment as an economic goal.
Massive public works projects.
Breast cancer self-examination awareness programs.
Anti-drinking & anti-smoking campaigns aimed at youth.
Preferential treatment for oppressed ethnic groups.

25 posted on 01/01/2002 10:45:37 AM PST by Arleigh
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To: cdwright

And just what do you mean by that? Eh?

You sound dangerous.. it sounds like you are advocating violence..

Papers please.. Come on..

26 posted on 01/01/2002 10:47:30 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: Jhoffa_
It's a good example of what happens when a nation is living a crazy lifestyle, it's a dangerous environment, the sheople have been "wussified", and believe, or are lead to believe, that only the "gubmint" can protect them.

Hitler played the Germans like Heifitz played a Strad; Hitlery will do the same given the chance.

We're quickly coming to that juncture. If Fox News doesn't stop the 24-hour a day fear-mongering (how many times can you say "safe" and "security", or variants thereof, in one day?). I might go back to CNN. Of course, they could be the same, but I haven't watched CNN in over a year.

prambo

28 posted on 01/01/2002 10:58:15 AM PST by prambo
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To: prambo

Uh, bingo.. and history repeats itself..

People ultimately get the government they deserve.

29 posted on 01/01/2002 11:00:22 AM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
Claire's site:

--Claire Wolfe's Wolfe Lodge-

30 posted on 01/01/2002 11:15:41 AM PST by backhoe
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To: Jhoffa_
I would support the following type of national biometric ID system, if and when the technology is reliable:

1) Nobody can be required to carry anything--just ain't constitutional, and gazillions of people would refuse, not to mention that any card is forgeable, so verification would always rest with some sort of computer database anyway.

2) A database would serve to distinguish citizens from non-citizens, and would consist ONLY of some reliable lifelong biometric record (possibly DNA) and an ID# for ease in locating/arranging the records. No name, no date of birth, absolutely no way for someone to use the database to identify individuals.

3) A phone line-based system, like the one now used for verifying credit cards, would enable anyone -- employers, airline security personnel, sellers of bulk ammonium nitrate, police, aviation schools, etc. -- to ascertain whether an individual's biometric is or is not in the database; i.e. to ascertain whether or not the individual is a citizen.

4) Absolute prohibition (with huge criminal penalties) on database searchers using a system which is capable of recording the biometric data (as that would enable matching of biometric data to other identifying information such as name, in transactions such as employment, or purchases by credit card or check, and thus enable the compiling of a identifying database of some portion of the citizenry).

5) Duplicate records would be held at the state level (state of birth or residence at naturalization, and at the individual's option state(s) of subsequent residence, and/or county of residence). This provides a check on federal meddling or incompetence in which individuals might either deliberately or accidentally be "de-citizenized", as it would be provided that any conflict between state and federal records is automatically ruled in favor of the individual.

This system would enable near-instantaneous confirmation of whether a person is or is not a citizen, without identifying the individual in question either to the questioner or to the maintainers of the database. This in turn would enable authorities and sensitive businesses to treat citizens and non-citizens differently, which it is currently impossible to do on a routine basis. If a person's citizenship can be determined quickly and non-intrusively, this would enable citizens to bypass closer scrutiny while applying higher standards of scrutiny to non-citizens. This wouldn't catch the Timothy McVeighs, but it would catch foreign terrorists, foreign drug runners, and illegal immigrants. It could also be helpful to citizens who look and/or sound "foreign", by providing a quick way to establish citizenship in situations where they may be suspected of being illegal immigrants, causing employers to fear hiring them, etc.

I see little point in even maintaining the concept of citizenship, if there's no practical way to determine who is or isn't one.

31 posted on 01/01/2002 11:33:49 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Your logic is horribly flawed. All digital systems and government programs are subject to illegal tampering, theft, and down right incompetence. Any system that is that valuable will be sellable to the highest bidder, i.e. thief. Such a system would not GUARANTEE individual rights and citizen safety; rather, it would compromise it. Relying on such a system is dangerous to the very citizenship it intends to safeguard.
32 posted on 01/01/2002 11:44:47 AM PST by PatrioticAmerican
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To: PatrioticAmerican
The whole point is that it wouldn't be valuable to anyone with nefarious purposes. What is anyone going to do with a database of 300 million UNIDENTIFIED biometric records?
33 posted on 01/01/2002 11:51:58 AM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The potential for abuse is the problem..
34 posted on 01/01/2002 12:15:50 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
Please specify what you're thinking of. HOW does one abuse a database of 300 million UNIDENTIFIED biometric records?
35 posted on 01/01/2002 12:31:25 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Look at Social Security.. Or Weapons background checks..

There is your answer.

36 posted on 01/01/2002 12:34:10 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_
Did you actually read my post? Social Security and weapons background checks involve keeping databases which include personal identifying information such as name, date of birth, and more. Keep trying -- I'm genuinely interested in seeing if someone can poke holes in my scheme, but I tried it out on an e-mail group of very bright people a couple of months ago, and no one could poke a hole. I'm still waiting for someone here to do so, because vague assertions that it could "somehow" be abused, without any viable examples, suggest to me that it may really not be open to abuse.
37 posted on 01/01/2002 12:39:56 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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To: GovernmentShrinker

Did you read mine?

SS is never, ever supposed to be used at a means of identifying people.. But, try getting a DL or a job without one today. File your taxes..

Weapons background checks are supposed to be erased.. but it isn't happneing..

Now, what about your corruption proof system again?

38 posted on 01/01/2002 12:54:48 PM PST by Jhoffa_
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To: Jhoffa_;Cicero;cdwright;Billy_bob_bob;MadRobotArtist;Wolfie;sweetliberty;SuperLuminal;Arleigh...
Rather than respond to each post separately I decide to post to each of you in one response.

Would you do business with traitor John Walker?

Wake up! Stop playing by their rules.

But statements coming out of the White House have been non-committal -- of the “we‘re keeping all options open“ variety.

In a world of law abiding citizens -- people that don't initiate force -- they have nothing to hide. The parasitical elite -- the most destructive users of the initiation of force, fraud and coercion -- have that to hide. They have to hide their true parasitical colors. They do it by an array of illusions. But illusions are just that. All illusions eventually collapse when the the spotlight of honesty and wide-scope accounting is shinned on them.

While past performance is not a guarantee of future performance, it is a ten times more likely to be an accurate gauge for what a politician will do than a politician that merely proclaims what he or she will do.

Make it mandatory that every politician show their government ID when purchasing any good or service. After all, we are their employer and they our employees. The People are the master.

The ostracism matrix database. A database that gives an objective rating of each politicians past performance. How often did the congressperson vote in favor of a law that violates the constitution or bill of rights? How often did the politician violate his or her oath of office to the people and the constitution? Each politician has a value destruction rating.

Just think what it could do to with the instant ability to monitor and cut off access to transportation or services for a variety of disobedient or “questionable“ people.

Picture this. A politician or bureaucrat is at the check out counter and must show his government employee ID. The sales clerk checks it against the ostracism database and says, "Sir, you have a triple AAA value destruction rating. Get out of here now. We don't sell to parasites or value destroyers."

Just as consumers rely heavily on the track record of past performance when they buy a car or chose a contractor to build a house even more scrutiny of past performance should be applied to electing politicians. The best track records of past performance are that of the businessman. Either they deliver as their track record shows or they get out-competed.

Value Destroyers versus Value Producers 

If civilization had to chose between business/science and government/bureaucracy, eliminating the other, which is the better choice?

The first thing civilization must have is business/science. It's what the family needs so that its members can live creative, productive, happy lives. Business/science can survive, even thrive without government/bureaucracy.

Government/bureaucracy cannot survive without business/science. In general, business/science and family is the host and government/bureaucracy is a parasite.

Aside from that, keep valid government services that protect individual rights and property. Military defense, FBI, CIA, police and courts. With the rest of government striped away those few valid services would be several fold more efficient and effective than they are today. 

Underwriters Laboratory is a private sector business that has to compete in a capitalist market. Underwriters laboratory is a good example of success where government fails.

Any government agency that is a value to the people and society could better serve the people by being in the private sector where competition demands maximum performance.

Wake up! We are the host. They are the parasites. We don't need them. They need us.

39 posted on 01/01/2002 1:08:57 PM PST by Zon
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To: Jhoffa_
One more time. HOW would you abuse a biometric database that contains NO personal identifying information. Your social security and weapons examples involve databases which DO contain personal identifying information -- and that information is essential to carrying out abuses of those databases.
40 posted on 01/01/2002 1:13:13 PM PST by GovernmentShrinker
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