Myth: The Founders Established A Wall of Separation Between Church and State

excerpt from the book Five Lies of the Century pp. 15-30 | 1995 | David T. Moore

[Demidog]

Pretty much your standard reconstructionist argument. It avoids the legal realities however.

[UCANSEE2]

What I understood, and was taught, and read, was that they specified "A seperation of the POWERS of CHURCH and STATE".

Their intent was to keep the STATE from using the powers and influence of the CHURCH to manipulate/control the populace.

This was the reason they left ENGLAND and came to the Americas, was to set up a gov't like this, and not like ENGLAND's where the CHURCH and STATE were intimately linked, and the STATE declared you must practice the chosen religion.

[UCANSEE2]

Isn't it funny how the media, politicians can leave ONE WORD out of a sentence, and use it to confound an entire nation.

Once again, they did not declare a separation of church and state,

but a Separation of the POWERS of CHURCH AND STATE ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

[Texas Eagle]

Look what our schools have become ever since GOD was thrown out of them!

Excellent point. I wonder if anyone has the stats on how many school shootings there were before prayer was taken out of school and how many there have been since prayer was removed. I'd also like to have a practicing anti-Christian bigot explain to me why it's okay to pray in school AFTER a school shooting but not before.

[anniegetyourgun]

You're right - we are no longer a Christian nation. We are not even a post-Christian nation. We live in an anti-Christian nation. But then, our heavenly Father told us there'd be days like this....

[NatureGirl]

Of this band of dupes and imposters, Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and the first corruptor of the doctrines of Jesus

Amen to that!

[LarryLied]

Thomas Jefferson, a Deist (not a Christian)

Late in life, Jefferson acknowledged he was a Unitarian and proselytized on their behalf. He was not a deist.

[MJY1288]

Here is the ammendment:

Amendment 1

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[Shermy]

Toenail, you're like a hangnail. You should only cite off hand remarks, contemperaneous politically motivated pandering to the religious, and vague statements. Just ignore the majority of statements by our deist and agnostic forefathers for the exceptions to prove a "rule." And please, don't quote a document that most of our forefathers actually contributed and signed which might throw a monkey wrench into the gears, like:

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."

Bunch of pagans if you ask me. :)

[UCANSEE2]

So, does this follow what I said. The founders wanted a gov't that did not have the power to tell you which religion to practice or not to practice ?

If you were agreeing with my by supplying the amendment, I respectfully Thank You !

[toenail]

"I wonder if anyone has the stats on how many school shootings there were before prayer was taken out of school and how many there have been since prayer was removed. I'd also like to have a practicing anti-Christian bigot explain to me why it's okay to pray in school AFTER a school shooting but not before."

http://www.columbine-angels.com/other_shootings.htm

I'd like someone to explain to me why Christians let the government raise their kids in the first place.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thanks for the heads up!

[Texas Eagle]

I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism; he preaches the efficacy of repentence toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it.

No King but King Thomas !........I don't know.....doesn't quite carry the same weight......

[MJY1288]

Your Welcome, That is how it was originally written, but we must understand that Bill Clinton and the majority of Liberals are still struggling with the meaning of the word "is"

[LarryLied]

"I rejoice that in this blessed country of free inquiry and belief, which has surrendered its conscience to neither kings nor priests, the genuine doctrine of one God is reviving and I trust that there is not a young man now living in the United States who will not die a Unitarian."
--Thomas Jefferson June 22, 1822

Unitarians such as Jefferson, John John Quincy and Abigal Adams,Julia Ward Howe and Millard Fillmore, among others, did consider themselves Christians.

[satchmodog9]

You are the only person I have ever heard other than my father to outline that point. That perspective(truth) was actually taught in schools back in the 1950s. I was raised to beleive all the things you have written about. I wish you would submit that as an oped to a few hundred newspapers. Piss on the left and all they stand for. GODBLESSTHEUSA. No separation here.

[Shermy]

Unitarians Christians? (ok don't flame me!)

But that was at the end of his life, not during the relevant times of country building.

[Sir Gawain]

Number 20, please.

Harold K. Lane, Liberty! Cry Liberty! (Boston: Lamb and Lamb Tractarian Society, 1939) 32-3.

[MJY1288]

Our fore-fathers had the wisdom and foresight to see the danger of states or nations that are ruled by a religion or a religous organization, and the danger of the state ruling the religion. This doesn't mean their has to be a absolute seperation, it just means government can't rule or be ruled by a religion.

Just look at every single country on the planet that is governed by a religous entity or person! It results in oppression and dictatorships, but when religion is denied you have Godless and morally bankrupt countries like China and the former Soviet Union. My belief is: The Founding Fathers made sure it was understood we were founded under "One God" and the seperation between church and state is that no laws or shall be made for or against religion. So I believe when our children were denied the right of prayer in school, that is when our Constitutional Rights were violated