Posted on 01/09/2002 3:39:27 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
US President George W. Bush is sceptical about American Airlines' claim that it removed an Arab-American agent in Bush's security team from a plane for being "hostile".
"I know the man, I am most appreciative of his service to me and my wife. He is an honorable fellow," Bush said.
"I would be surprised if he was hostile."
The US Secret Service, which is responsible for presidential security, said in late December it had launched an inquiry into why the agent, headed to Texas to protect a holidaying Bush, was removed from the aircraft.
The agent, speaking through his lawyers, said he was barred from the Baltimore (Maryland) to Dallas (Texas) flight because of his ethnicity, amid fears sparked by the September 11 terrorist strikes.
"If he was mistreated because of his ethnicity, I'm going to be plenty hot. That means angry," Bush said.
But he added: "I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see."
You're the only one who seems to be constantly bringing up racial issues. It sounds like you may be projecting some of your own racial issues onto the rest of us.
Although there may have been profiling issues involved, hopefully you are not confusing profiling and racism -- since they are not the same thing.
That was 12 years ago and how often do you think the president or vice president (which he had been for 8 years under Reagan) goes to the grocery store?
BUT (my turn to use that word) he didn't. His actions make his motive suspect, and brings his judgement into question. I side with the pilot on this.
I do know this - we're hearing spin from both sides. When American found out one of their captains went off half cocked and denied boarding to a member of the President's personal security detail, we began hearing about "hostile" behavior and bad paperwork (the details of which I haven't seen).
Frankly, if I had to fly on Christmas for business, went through the security hassle, got bumped, got delayed and then found out the captain was considering bouncing me, I'd be more than a little "hostile."
Armed law enforcement officers fly routinely and I'm glad they do. If the captain couldn't figure out how to verify the bona fides of an officer boarding his plane, perhaps he should have spoken with someone at American security who knew what he was doing.
I'd like to see a coherent and effective security policy for air travel. I haven't seen a single measure yet implimented that would have prevented 9-11. I have seen four hour security lines and lots of confiscated fingernail clippers, but shoe bombs and handguns still get through.
Airline Captains
President Bush
Secret Service Agents
When presented with the opportunity to have the agent's identity verified by phone, the captain refused to do so. When it was suggested by top security officials, he still refused to do so. Evidently, finally thinking he'd caught an imposter and eager to go after the agent, the captain had his staff do what they should have done from the get-go. They verified the agent's identity.
Completely forgotten is the fact that this agent had already passed three different checkpoints, with an airport security agent walking him through. Totally forgotten is the fact that he had already been seated and ready to take off on the first aircraft. Completely ignored is that the reason the first form at the new aircraft was altered. The airline didn't have the proper form available.
When the agent complained about the airline having to view his ID five times, the captain informed him it wasn't any of his concern? The agent's statement says that the captain actually said, "Don't address me directly."
Reading all the account and realizing the mindset of this captain, I no longer support captains being armed. Evidently these guys egos are so far out of control that they can't even take elemental steps to avoid confrontations. If the captain had asked his people to get the White House number from information instead of the agent, this situation could have been resolved in short order.
Note that the first form filled out was readable, it was simply on the wrong form due to no fault of the agent.
The airline reports provide enough data to call into question why the agent finally lost his cool.
President Bush, I'm with you fella.
"Pilot error."
That tells me just how all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-wise these guys are--but some FReepers will still back them no matter what.
Especially since Delta hired a Marine light colonel that was cashiered for dumping an A-4M Skyhawk onto its belly tank. A few years later, I board a Delta flight, having had several adult beverages, see this guy, and politely ask, "So, you gonna remember 'gear down and locked' THIS time, ace?"
The looks on the first-class passenger's faces were truly priceless...
Here's a happy thought from Middle East expert Daniel Pipes:
Islamists constitute a small but significant minority of Muslims, perhaps 10 to 15 per cent of the
population. Many of them are peaceable in appearance, but they all must be considered
potential killers.
How does 400,000 to 600,000 -- in our country -- potential killers sound?
America's Fifth Column ... watch PBS documentary JIHAD! In America
Download 8 Mb zip file here (60 minute video)
As a ex-Special Forces Sgt, I say he was. If he didn't have the common courtesy ,professionalism, flexibility and interpersonal skills and, at these times, to intellegently amd calmly understand the security atmosphere and dynamics of this paticular situation, he's an idiot and incompetent to boot. He took a hissy fit and behaved in a way that he himself wouldn't allow( I imagine ) in any security situation he was controlling.
No, actually the first form was an illegible copy with the flight number scratched out and the new flight number written in in another handwriting. (No fault of the agent and the reason he was asked to fill in another form). The second report was filled out incorrectly. The third form was completely filled out but was not signed and there was no phone number.
None of this would have meant anything except the guy got mad. Now think about it D-1:
1. Forms irregular
2. Attendent reports bag left unattended on plane contains book with Arabic symbols (turns out to be cover art)
3. Guy claiming to be USSS on PPD loses temper (really suspicious for someone on PPD)
4. Guy claims he has pull at WH threatens pilot with loss of job
All this is very unprofessional behavior and would make ANYONE suspicious. Add to that the fact that the shoe bomber had been stopped one day and passed the next day and it would make you err on the side of caution.
Right. What is your problem? You don't think blacks can be aircraft commanders? Or that a black pilot couldn't kick a white guy? Man are you racist.
I've been wondering how that'd work; could I claim that I'm a SS agent and arrange something with my wife so that if she gets a call she's to answer the phone "secret service" and verify I'm an agent? If someone came to my door would I know who to call to verify it? Nah and why should a pilot take the time?
I don't have a clue as to what happened. I've seen guys, even usually reasonable ones, get in situations where they start slamming their, uh, ya know, on the table. Heck, I've done it myself in other situations and I like to think most people who know me think I'm honorable.
What gets me twisted is the agent getting all bent out of shape. I'm a 50 year old white guy and I've flown once since 911 and while I didn't set off any alarms I've been strip searched once, patted down three times and had to show my id six times. I didn't like it, it reminded me of all those Nazi movies I saw as a kid where they kept asking for peoples papers, but hey, such is the nature of flying these days. I said a bunch of silent expletives and while I didn't get kicked off a plane (I did consider getting a bit testy when one of the security guys got kind of friendly and didn't even buy me dinner) I was fully aware that in this case had I objected or complained I wouldn not be flying.
IMO, regardless of what kind of jerk the pilot might or might not have been, the solution was to respect the authority in that environment and say yes sir and how high. Maybe I missed it but I sure didn't see anything said on behalf of the agent that indicated that he tried to fix it. Only that he probably got his butt on his shoulder.
It occurs to me that if he's not capable of that then he's in the wrong line of work.
Sounds like the hysterical, lunatic ravings of an emotionally unstable buffoon.
* Maintain the utmost respect for individual Muslims, mosques and other institutions. A time of crisis does not change the assumption that each of us is innocent until proved guilty.
* Do not make any prejudicial statements against Muslims, a great majority of whom are innocent of Islamism or illegal behaviour.
* Provide extra protection against acts of vandalism or hooliganism against Muslim property and individuals.
-- Daniel Pipes
Actually we did hear a bit more about it, but few people here wanted to deal with the reality of what happened. What we heard was that the "threat" was complete bull****. Ari Fleischer had to stand at a press conference and admit that there was no threatening phone call they they could find, and the threat against AF1 was likely the figment of a staffers imagination.
I'm sure in the heat of the moment anything seemed possible and there was certainly no time to sort out fact from fiction once that stupid rumor got started until long after the actual event. But there was no mole, no compromised secret codes, no phone call thretening AF1, no risk to Bush at any time. It sounded false at the time on 9/11 and it is still false today.
If you read the reports contained on this thread, the pilot did just that and coudln't get an answer to satisfy him.
Keep in mind the pilot doesn't have unlimited time and he is expected to be sure the plane is airworthy. So, according to you and others, if the pilot is unsure about flying with an arrogant angry gun toting man then in order not to offend someone who happens to be an Arab we should put our concerns aside and place everyone at risk instead of erring on the side of caution ?
When it was suggested by top security officials, he still refused to do so. The Captain called back again and stated the he was still questioning the validity of this passenger working for the Secret Service because the secret service agent had failed to fill the paperwork out properly again. I asked if he had looked at the agent credentials. He said you work for the airline, you know how easy it would be to get fake I.D. I suggested that I could call the Secret Service and verify that this passenger was in fact an agent. I asked the Captain to request the agent’s superiors [sic] name and number. The Captain said that we should not use his information because he could have a friend answering the phone when we called.
"I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see."
Doesn’t seem to stop you though.
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