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1 posted on 01/09/2002 3:39:27 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie (byron_the_aussie@yahoo.com)
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
If he is so honorable, why did he go running to CAIR and get a lawyer instead of letting his superiors handle the matter quietly? CAIR is a well known apologist organization for terrorist groups such as HAMAS.
2 posted on 01/09/2002 3:45:45 AM PST by Zorobabel
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Another minority woose. It is the captian's plane. Just because the feds give you a stamped metal badge and a gun----means squat. They guy needs to get a life.
3 posted on 01/09/2002 3:52:14 AM PST by Leisler
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Not to change the subject, but when the Sept. 11th attacks occurred, wasn't there some comment about Air Force One being the next target to be attacked? I remember some comments on the news being made that these terrorists had the "code" names for Air Force One and no one knew how that was possible. All of a sudden, you never heard one more word about this. Any comments, Freepers?
4 posted on 01/09/2002 3:52:16 AM PST by smiley
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To: Kevin Curry; Brad C; ConsistentLibertarian; ninonitti; lavaroise; ambrose
Bump.

Appreciate your support, Mr. President.

6 posted on 01/09/2002 3:54:02 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: not-an-ostrich; UberVernunft; one_particular_harbour; DoughtyOne; CWRWinger
FYI.

Cool-headed Prez weighs in. Time for hot headed Freepers to bow out?

8 posted on 01/09/2002 3:58:01 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: He Rides A White Horse
C'mon you swaybacked ol' nag. Trot over here and explain this.
13 posted on 01/09/2002 4:08:15 AM PST by Byron_the_Aussie
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Bush needs to back off of this issue. He hasn't flown coach in awhile or gone through airport security lately.

His dad hadn't gone grocery shopping either and the bar code scanner he saw at check-out showed how out of touch he was with everyday life.

With the feds sending out unspecified alerts every few weeks and idiots with exploding shoes running around, airport security will be tight, it will be racially profiled (unfortunately) and it should have no exceptions.

15 posted on 01/09/2002 4:16:52 AM PST by Ranger
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Monday January 7 5:45 PM ET

Bush Speaks on Agent Barred From Air

WASHINGTON (AP) - President Bush (news - web sites) said Monday he would be surprised if the Arab-American Secret Service agent who was removed from a flight on Christmas Day was ``hostile,'' as American Airlines says.

``I know the man, I am most appreciative of his service to me and my wife. He is an honorable fellow,'' Bush told reporters in the Oval Office.

``I would be surprised if he was hostile,'' Bush said. ``But I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see.''

Bush said he looked forward to the results of an investigation into the incident.

``If he was mistreated because of his ethnicity, I'm going to be plenty hot. That means angry,'' Bush said.

The armed agent was barred from a flight at the Baltimore-Washington International Airport. He was flying to Waco, Texas, to join the security detail protecting Bush.

The pilot described the man as acting ``very hostile'' and making ``loud, abusive comments.'' American Airlines chief executive Don Carty said over the weekend he backed the pilot's decision to remove the agent.

Lawyers representing the agent say he was cooperative, calm and professional throughout the encounter, and they suggest he was a victim of discrimination.

24 posted on 01/09/2002 4:27:59 AM PST by Dane
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
I addressed this yesterday. In depth.
29 posted on 01/09/2002 4:39:33 AM PST by He Rides A White Horse
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Ya, but the president seems to think abortionsit, homosexuals and lesbians are pretty honorable too. He has more homosexuals and anti-life pro-abortionist on his list of high appointments than he does Christians.

Nukem

32 posted on 01/09/2002 4:45:11 AM PST by Alas
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
But he (GWB) added: "I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see."

The pilot was there - he did see.

35 posted on 01/09/2002 4:52:00 AM PST by veronica
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Group wants Northwest to apologize for asking teen to remove head scarf - AP/Boston.com, by Staff

'A civil rights organization is demanding Northwest Airlines apologize for allegedly forcing a Muslim high school student to remove her head scarf at an airport security checkpoint. In a letter to the Minnesota-based carrier, the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations said Monday the Dec. 18 incident was an example of religious harassment and an equivalent of a public strip search. The council is asking the airline to investigate the incident at Baltimore-Washington International Airport and discipline the security guard.'

CAIR again. Busy, busy, busy. And people whine about the ADL.

37 posted on 01/09/2002 4:55:17 AM PST by veronica
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Per your questions: American Air CEO Defends Pilot Who Barred Agent

CHICAGO (Reuters) - American Airlines' top executive defended a pilot's decision to bar an armed U.S. Secret Service agent of Arab-American descent from boarding a Christmas Day flight after the agent reacted angrily when the pilot questioned his credentials. Donald Carty, chief executive of AMR Corp.'s American Airlines, said in a weekend message left on a hotline for employees that the episode with the Secret Service agent was ''something that runs the very real risk of escalating beyond reason.'' ``I'm stepping in here because I think two things are worth making completely clear to everyone. ... I am completely convinced that our captain acted appropriately and in the best interest of security on his airplane,'' Carty said. Lawyers for the 33-year-old agent, who was traveling from Baltimore/Washington International Airport to protect a vacationing President Bush at his Texas ranch, last week accused the world's largest airline of racial discrimination.

Bush, talking to reporters at the White House, said ``if he was mistreated because of his ethnicity, I'm going to be plenty hot. That means angry.'' ``And I know the man, I am most appreciative of his service to me and my wife. He is an honorable fellow. But I don't know enough about the details of this particular incident. But I know there's an investigation going on, and I look forward to seeing it,'' Bush said. ``I would be surprised if he was hostile. But I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see,'' he said.

The agent was identified in the media as Walied Shater, but his identity was not confirmed by the Secret Service. Security at U.S. airports remains heightened in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, which killed some 3,300 people in New York and Washington. Two of the planes hijacked and crashed belonged to American, and two belonged to UAL Corp.'s United Airlines. Pilots at American routinely deal with armed law enforcement officers aboard their planes, Carty said, and ``have a feel'' for what paperwork and behavior should be.

``In the judgement of an experienced pilot, backed by SOC (systems operations control) and law enforcement in Baltimore, this agent was not behaving appropriately,'' Carty said. ``And our captain simply was not going to let an angry man, with a gun, on his airplane, and I back that completely.''

The agent's attorneys said a single telephone call to the White House would have confirmed the man's identity. Bush, meanwhile, has said he would be ``madder than heck'' if the agent turned out to be a victim of racial profiling. Last week, Fort Worth, Texas-based American released an account of the incident by the pilot, who said the agent was ''confrontational'' and ``abusive.'' The airline said the pilot filed a letter of complaint with the Secret Service, which was investigating the incident.

46 posted on 01/09/2002 5:10:11 AM PST by a_witness
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
AMERICAN HOLDS FIRM ON PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF ITS PASSENGERS

News Releases 
 FOR RELEASE: Thursday, Jan. 3, 2002

    AMERICAN HOLDS FIRM ON PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF ITS
                       PASSENGERS

 FORT WORTH, Texas – American Airlines today said it would not be deterred
 from protecting the safety of its passengers by frivolous claims of racial profiling
 asserted by the Washington, D.C. law firm of Relman & Associates.

 The company said: "American carries out its security obligations according to
 the guidelines provided by the Federal government. Those guidelines are
 applied equally among all passengers, and the company vigorously resents any
 suggestion of racial discrimination.

 "Threats of lawsuits will not deter us from justly applying the security programs
 established to protect the tens of millions of customers who entrust us with their
 lives each year."

 American finds the "facts" released by the law firm today surprising and
 irresponsible since the firm has not discussed this incident with any American
 Airlines employee involved. Airline employees said the passenger, an armed
 Secret Service agent, behaved inappropriately.

 The airline said that, while it also would prefer to resolve this situation in an
 amicable way, it cannot allow misleading information to go uncorrected.

 American therefore feels obligated to release the attached copies of incident
 reports filed by the captain of Flight 363 and the manager of the airline’s System
 Operations Control center who spoke directly with the passenger.

 "These reports paint a clear and consistent picture of what occurred during this
 agent’s attempt to board Flight 363," the airline said. "While we’ll let the reports
 speak for themselves, we will reiterate that American will not allow any armed
 individual onboard, regardless of who he or she is, if that person is angry or
 acting in a manner that the crew believes could jeopardize the safety of the flight."

 American can confirm that, as stated in the captain’s report, he has filed a letter
 of complaint with the Secret Service.

 As this incident is now under investigation by the Secret Service, American
 cannot comment beyond this statement.

 Text of Captain’s Statement
 Misconduct of Armed Passenger
 Debrief Detail:

 Armed passenger * flight 363 BWI/DFW. Flight was scheduled to leave at 1715. I
 was notified that due to a mechanical at the next gate - they would hold our push
 for approximately 30-40 minutes to try to accommodate those pax going to DFW.
 A few moments later the *1 flt attendant brought to my attention that she and other
 flt att were concerned about the actions of one of the pax. This pax left the aircraft
 with carryon bags still in his seat. He told the flt att. Please don’t leave without
 him. While the pax was away a flt att observed books in the individuals seat
 which were written in what she assessed was Arabic style print. Upon further
 investigation - when the individual came back it was determined that he was in
 fact our ‘armed passenger’. I then decided to stop my pre-flt and review the AA
 E2. The form was unreadable because it was a carbon-copy and there were
 missing items. I then had the agent come back and recheck his credentials and
 give me a new AA E2. Again this form was filled out improperly. I left my seat to
 speak to the individual. He appeared nervous and anxious. With all the forms that
 I received in error I determined that the most prudent course of action was to call
 dispatch to phone patch me to the SOC. I asked them to fax me a copy of what
 the Secret Service credentials looks like. He advised me that BWI should have
 this information. BWI in fact does not. We still were accommodating the
 connecting passengers and had time to further determine the proper credentials
 of this person. While all this was going on the individual approached me in front
 of the lead agent and asked why he was being denied boarding for so long. I
 disclosed to him that the paper work was not correct and that I needed to have
 this fixed before he would be accommodated. This was an AA issue and none of
 his concern. At this time the individual became very hostile with me. Upon all the
 information that I had up to this point - I had doubt as to his actual representation
 as a Special Agent for the Secret Service. 1. *Two improperly filled out AA Form
 E2. 2. *Flt atts bringing to my attention what appeared to be strange behavior. 3.
 *Hostility toward me for trying to correct my required paper work. I then had the
 Maryland Airport Authority police determine his proper ID by calling the Secret
 Service as to his legitimate status. This took about ten minutes to complete. In
 the interim I was given a third improperly filled out AA Form E2. This had no
 signature of the LEO. No initial as to the traveling status of the officer. No phone
 number. While the police were determining the proper status of this individual this
 person came up to me with loud abusive comments as to his being denied
 boarding. That he has the powers of the White House behind him and that this is
 not of [sic] the end of this matter. The police agreed with me that there was a
 legitimate concern because of his unprofessional behavior. This was all in full
 view of every passenger boarding the flight. He then said he would not board the
 flt. As it turned out he was an actual LEO. After the events of 9/11 and another of
 our fls targeted with explosives and causing injury to a flt att I absolutely felt
 correct in having this individuals [sic] identification validated. After three improper
 AA Form E2s [sic] and the behavior of this individual, I needed to be 100% sure
 of his credentials. If he just let us do our job of getting the paper work in order, he
 would have been boarded, and it would have been a pleasure to carry an ‘armed
 passenger’. With the lives of the entire passengers and crew, I was
 uncomfortable with his actions and did what a Captain should do and edge
 toward the side of safety and not move the aircraft until I’m confident that all
 issues are satisfied before taking off. As a note, I am filling [sic] a misconduct
 report with the Secret Services Internal Affairs division. I would suggest that AA
 Security follow up on this matter because this individual made the entire crew
 uncomfortable with his actions and absolutely with his confrontational behavior
 toward me. The police officer who was very helpful was officer (redacted). The
 case # was (redacted). The Secret Service Agent’s name was (redacted).
 Passports and fraudulent IDs can easily be altered to look passable. With all the
 items to this event not adding up, I absolutely believe I acted in the best interest
 of my crew, pax and AA.

 Text of SOC Manager’s Statement:

 I was working as Center Manager on Christmas and received a call from Captain

 (employee number ) flying flight 363 from BWI/DFW. The Captain had a concern
 about a passenger onboard his flight. The Captain first requested a fax
 containing all wanted terrorist photos that American had available. I explained
 that this was not possible and asked exactly what problem he was encountering.
 He said that he received paperwork for a passenger that stated he was a Secret
 Service Agent and would be traveling armed. The Captain said that the
 paperwork contained scratched out flight numbers and may have been altered. I
 then suggested that the Captain request new paperwork. The Captain called
 back again and stated the he was still questioning the validity of this passenger
 working for the Secret Service because the secret service agent had failed to fill
 the paperwork out properly again. I asked if he had looked at the agent
 credentials. He said you work for the airline, you know how easy it would be to
 get fake I.D. I suggested that I could call the Secret Service and verify that this
 passenger was in fact an agent. I asked the Captain to request the agent’s
 superiors [sic] name and number. The Captain said that we should not use his
 information because he could have a friend answering the phone when we called.
 I then suggested get the local police to verify the I.D. since, being located at BWI,
 they would have exposure to Secret Service I.D.’s and contact phone numbers.
 The next phone call I received was from the AA ticket agent at BWI. He said that
 the Secret Service agent had verbally abused the Captain and that the Captain
 was denying him boarding. I asked to speak to the police officer that was witness
 to this, who then verified what the ticket agent had stated. Based on this, I then
 decided to end boarding to this passenger on future AA flights. Later, I received
 a call from the AA ticket agent at BWI and was asked to talk to this Secret
 Service Agent. I then heard the Secret Service Agent’s side of the story. He
 admitted to not properly filling out the paperwork for carrying a weapon; not once,
 but twice. He also admitted to losing his temper with the Captain because he
 was asked for his ID five separate times. When he asked why he was denied
 future boarding, I explained that I could not expose AA crews or passengers to
 abuse. He said he was being discriminated against, wanted my bosses [sic]
 name, and threatened that he would have my job. He was going to take this to the
 highest authority. I asked for his superior’s name and contacted him. I explained
 the situation to the superior. He confirmed that this man did work for the Secret
 Service, and would contact him. A short time later the agent’s superior called
 back and said that he was sorry for losing his temper and would like to travel out
 of DCA the next day. He then stated that the agent was of Middle Eastern
 descent. I explained to the superior that I did not know this and that there was no
 discrimination in the denied boarding process with SOC. I was 1,000 miles away
 from the situation and handled it as we would for any unruly passenger. We
 agreed the agent could travel the next day.

 SOC Center Manager – American Airlines

50 posted on 01/09/2002 5:14:49 AM PST by a_witness
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Ping me when Bush accuses the pilot of being dishonorable and racist, as you implied the pilot was.

The agent was a jerk. The fact that Bush won't say it publically means little. The lives of the passengers are vastly more important than the personal inconvenience of one of Bush's incompetent guards.

And, yes it did turn out that the jerk was a SS agent. Hindsight is marvelous. Few of us have the same quality of foresight. If we did, we could put the Las Vegas gaming establishment out of business overnight.

Apparently you and the jerks' defenders have a prophet's all-discerning foresight and perfect judgment of character. You are the solution to the problem. All of you must hire yourselves out to the airlines (top dollar, of course, in a bow to your impressive skills). They can rip out the metal detectors and do away with the pat downs and searches, for you will stand on a platform and gaze Sphinx-like over the mass of humanity as it passes below you.

As you spot each real terrorist, you can snap your fingers and alert a security agent standing by to violently tackle and arrest the terrorist. There will be no need to be gentle about it, for your judgment is perfect and will always be correct.

It's a perfect solution. Bush's pistol carrying jackass agents get on without a hassle, no law-abiding passenger is harmed, all terrorists are removed, and the airlines need no longer worry about their planes crashing into buildings and lawsuits that might bankrupt them.

What are you waiting for? Call American Airlines now! Save us all from inconvenience and make a pile of money while you're at it!

54 posted on 01/09/2002 5:20:58 AM PST by Kevin Curry
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
He might be noble, he might be a nice guy, he might be the best friend you could ever have ---but he doesn't know how to fill out forms properly, it took him 3 times and he's a federal agent. Try not filling out your IRS forms properly and you'll see federal agents who think that was inexcusable.
55 posted on 01/09/2002 5:27:00 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
I have to laugh at this complaint from a Secret Service agent about his treatment at the hands of another group. Secret Service agents have more leeway than anyone else when it comes to harassing law-abiding citizens, and I, for one, am quite happy to see one of them run through the wringer for a change.
61 posted on 01/09/2002 5:33:23 AM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
Well, our president might have faith in him, but I sure don't. I would have if he hadn't run right out and got a lawyer. As a matter of fact, he could have done more for American-Arabs if he had gone to the DOJ and let them announce it to the press. He would have appeared honorable and innocent and would have had the public support.

BUT (my turn to use that word) he didn't. His actions make his motive suspect, and brings his judgement into question. I side with the pilot on this.

104 posted on 01/09/2002 9:31:15 AM PST by McGavin999
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
The President is spot on that none of us knows exactly what happened. I'm reading a lot of speculation masquerading as confirmed facts.

I do know this - we're hearing spin from both sides. When American found out one of their captains went off half cocked and denied boarding to a member of the President's personal security detail, we began hearing about "hostile" behavior and bad paperwork (the details of which I haven't seen).

Frankly, if I had to fly on Christmas for business, went through the security hassle, got bumped, got delayed and then found out the captain was considering bouncing me, I'd be more than a little "hostile."

Armed law enforcement officers fly routinely and I'm glad they do. If the captain couldn't figure out how to verify the bona fides of an officer boarding his plane, perhaps he should have spoken with someone at American security who knew what he was doing.

I'd like to see a coherent and effective security policy for air travel. I haven't seen a single measure yet implimented that would have prevented 9-11. I have seen four hour security lines and lots of confiscated fingernail clippers, but shoe bombs and handguns still get through.

105 posted on 01/09/2002 9:34:41 AM PST by colorado tanker
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To: Byron_the_Aussie
"I wasn't there, so it's hard for me to comment on something which I did not see."

Doesn’t seem to stop you though.

119 posted on 01/09/2002 11:07:04 AM PST by dead
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