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FReeople Thread 274
01/16/02 | So9

Posted on 01/16/2002 8:35:17 AM PST by Servant of the Nine

FReeoples//
Thread 274



TOPICS: Miscellaneous
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To: ValerieUSA
stature = statue
601 posted on 01/17/2002 3:50:38 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: celtic gal
as the Q was not far from a swamp.

Is any of Beaufort?

602 posted on 01/17/2002 3:52:00 PM PST by null and void
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To: Mo1
"these idiots in a room with these terrorist"

I got a better idea...make it a prerequisite to their bitching about them!

603 posted on 01/17/2002 3:52:18 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: ValerieUSA
Got someone who is having serious personal problems coming over in a little while.. Got to get the table set and the dinner going..Be back later....So save some room for me!
604 posted on 01/17/2002 3:52:36 PM PST by celtic gal
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To: Mo1
"you are trying changing history and that is wrong"

That's exactly what these new age racists want though. They don't even believe in right and wrong.

605 posted on 01/17/2002 3:59:17 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: celtic gal
Thanks for your input .. you said it very well

From what I can tell .. many are afraid to touch the subject because they don't want to sound uncaring

But this is a road IMO that the taxpayers should not go down ...

There was one women who had called into the show .. she was orginally from another country but came to america when she married her husband .. a few years later he was killed in Vietnam .. she was a widow with a small son .. she told a story of how she had to learn english .. scrub floors and put herself thru nursing school ..

She went on to say that life is not always fair .. but that if you work hard you can pull yourself up and do things to make things a little better

606 posted on 01/17/2002 4:03:31 PM PST by Mo1
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To: celtic gal
I hope your wonderful hospitality helps your guest feel better.
607 posted on 01/17/2002 4:10:42 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: Mo1
I am sure thankful to be in America. I can't imagine the degree of hardship suffered by widows raising children in other countries - especially Islamic regimes.
608 posted on 01/17/2002 4:13:33 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: ValerieUSA
Yes we are all lucky to live is such a great Country .. I think some folks tend to forget that at times ..

I still remember watching my mother when I was a kid .. it wasn't easy for her .. but she did it

609 posted on 01/17/2002 4:20:39 PM PST by Mo1
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To: yall
Ok gotta go put kiddies to bed .. BBL
610 posted on 01/17/2002 4:28:54 PM PST by Mo1
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To: ValerieUSA; innocentbystander
IMHO, legal immigrants have enormous respect for the Constitution and appreciate the opportunities it affords them On the other hand, illegal immigrants see it as tool, a device to use against us. I fully support legal immigration. Legal immigrants have often make great sacrifices to get here, their committment to this country and our way of life have helped to make us that "Shining City on the hill" for most of the world. I oppose the efforts of liberal leftist to accomodate illegal immigrants. It diminishes all of those who struggled to get here and who complied with our immigration laws. It drains our resources and our energy. I received an email just yesterday on this topic. Some of you may have recieved the same one.

This is an editorial written by an American citizen, published in a local newspaper. He did quite a job; didn't he?

IMMIGRANTS, NOT AMERICANS, MUST ADAPT I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America. Our population is almost entirely comprised of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of Our society, learn the language!

"In God We Trust" is our national motto.
This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture. If Stars and Stripes offend you, or you don't like Uncle Sam, then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the right to express his opinion and we will allow you every opportunity to do so. But, once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our way of life, I highly encourage you to take advantage of one other great American freedom, THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.


611 posted on 01/17/2002 4:34:02 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: Mo1
paying these families and supporting them other then SS is going down the wrong road

The money they are getting from the government is in place of their right to sue The Airlines, the airports and various State and Local governments and the Federal Government for negligence in allowing the hijacking.

The lawsuits would have bankrupted the airlines and the government would have lost in court and ended up paying the money anyway. This way lawyers don't get 1/3 of it.

So9

612 posted on 01/17/2002 4:38:36 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: Darlin'
I like that, Darlin'. To move to America, yet always think of Americans as "them" and your old countrymen as "us," is to live a lie. Immigrants must be willing to not only move here, but become part of "us" - and if they refuse to take the second step, they need to move elsewhere.
613 posted on 01/17/2002 4:44:48 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: Servant of the Nine
The hijackers were personally responsible for their actions. We must accept the concept of personal responsibility, and that can't be done with massive lawsuits against airlines or governments for failure to protect us. That only encourages more dishonest denials from the government investigators whenever terrorists attack.

As Americans, protecting and defending ourselves and our nation is our responsibility. Ours. We must stop letting the government render us ineffective with their own ineffective "security" measures that rob us of our freedoms and rights and means of self-defense.

614 posted on 01/17/2002 4:50:30 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: Servant of the Nine
the government would have lost in court

I'm not sure that is correct. Assuming the survivors of the victims could bring suit against the government for negligence in allowing the hijacking, would they have necessarily won? Can I successfully sue local government if a convicted arsonist escapes from jail and burns my home? The state government if a psycho driver on State Route 1 runs me down? The federal government for crimes against me or my property by an illegal alien?

615 posted on 01/17/2002 4:57:29 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: ValerieUSA
"I can't imagine the degree of hardship suffered by widows raising children in other countries - especially Islamic regimes."

There were a couple of Afghani women who had talked about this with one of the news correspondents in Afghanistan recently; I forget who it was though. They had been taken as wives at very early ages and against their will. Their husbands were gone, they didn't know if they were dead or alive but they said that they could never hope for any kind of life now because they would be outcast.

Unlike here, women who lose their husbands in these oppressive countries can't just go out and make a new life for themselves, and many of them never even chose the one they have. The women have little choice about anything. It really is sad.

I am reminded often throughout this awful time of what scripture says about recognizing the spirit of Satan and the Spirit of God by their fruits. The fruits born of these Islamic nations is chaos and barbarism. There is never peace or even contentment. There is little sense of safety and security. In many ways we are so blessed but we take that so much for granted. I think September 11th changed that in the minds of many people. I pray it doesn't take another act of war of immense proportions to wake up some of the others who can see no farthur than the next PC argument in their political agenda.

616 posted on 01/17/2002 5:04:25 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Darlin'
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.

I am sorry Darlin' but that is a crock.

"In God We Trust" was a slogan put on money during the Civil War as a propaganda ploy.

This country was founded by people who whose leaders were almost all Deists rather than Christians and deliberately put into the constitution the First Amendment to limit Government control of Religion, but equally to prevent Religion gaining control of the Government.

This country was established and survived quite nicely for 'Four Score and Seven Years' without being overtly Christian or even 'God Fearing' and has gone downhill morally and ethically ever since people began to practice public religiosity rather than private religion.

So9

617 posted on 01/17/2002 5:04:48 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: catpuppy
I didn't say they should win, but it's like the Tobacco suits, when you have thousands of people who have been damaged they would win purely on sympathy

The important part was to keep the aviation disaster lawyers like Greta van Sustern from getting richer off of the disaster

So9

618 posted on 01/17/2002 5:09:37 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: ValerieUSA
"To move to America, yet always think of Americans as "them" and your old countrymen as "us," is to live a lie"

I have a lovely friend, a very serious person of German birth. She married an American GI about 10 years after WWII and moved to the US. About 12 years ago she became a naturalized citizen and was so excited about it. When I asked what took her so long she said, for years she had had a problem renouncing all allegiance to her former homeland. Then on a trip back to Germany to visit family she became aware the fact that she no longer referred to Americans as "they" but as "we". She said she knew then that it was time.

619 posted on 01/17/2002 5:12:15 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: Servant of the Nine
This country was established and survived quite nicely for 'Four Score and Seven Years' without being overtly Christian or even 'God Fearing'

Then who the heck built all those churches? There is scarcely a civil war battle that does not have "(fill in the blank) Church" as a prominent landmark.

620 posted on 01/17/2002 5:13:45 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: Servant of the Nine
I agree that keeping the lawyers away is a good thing. I am just not sure it was necessary for the taxpayers to serve as uncompensated insurors of last resort.
621 posted on 01/17/2002 5:17:10 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: Servant of the Nine
This country was founded by people who whose leaders were almost all Deists rather than Christians.

Nice try. Not true. They were Christians. There was a personal humility to their faith. They didn't speak in "testimonials" in public like you see on "Christian" TV shows - they would have been appalled at such behavior. They believed that their commitment to Christ was revealed in their actions, not their spoken claims.

622 posted on 01/17/2002 5:17:39 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: Darlin';yall
"I oppose the efforts of liberal leftist to accomodate illegal immigrants."

Part of the real problem here is that this is truly a bipartisan problem...neither party being particularly motivated to fix it because both are getting something out of it on a political front. Its deplorable. Once they get in and get a drivers license they can vote. Of course the democrats see this as a benefit (not that the law has ever really deterrred them from cheating anyway) and essentially settle into living off the American taxpayer whether it be welfare dollars or tuition dollars or public school dollars or medical benefits....the possibilities are endless.

And WE pay for it in more than taxes. Look around you. How many of you still see the America you grew up in? I don't. Even here, I go to the store less than 5 minutes away, and there are 2 Mexican stores visible from the parking lot. I expect its much worse other places. But PC marches on, and American falls little by little every time we defer to it.

623 posted on 01/17/2002 5:17:56 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Darlin'
she no longer referred to Americans as "they" but as "we". She said she knew then that it was time

Fine story, Darlin'.

624 posted on 01/17/2002 5:20:13 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: catpuppy
Gotta go to the gym BBL
625 posted on 01/17/2002 5:22:22 PM PST by ValerieUSA
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To: catpuppy
I can tell you that in North Carolina, a well settled State, at the time of the Revolution there were 2 Christian Churches. One at New Salem and one at Hillsborough.

There were lots of little "Churches" at the time of the War Between the States, most of which were combination Church, Town hall, comunity center, one room school and sometimes hay barn. That hardly makes the country seriously religious

So9

626 posted on 01/17/2002 5:24:56 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: catpuppy
I can tell you that in North Carolina, a well settled State, at the time of the Revolution there were 2 Christian Churches. One at New Salem and one at Hillsborough.

There were lots of little "Churches" at the time of the War Between the States, most of which were combination Church, Town hall, comunity center, one room school and sometimes hay barn. That hardly makes the country seriously religious

So9

627 posted on 01/17/2002 5:26:43 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: Servant of the Nine
"In God We Trust"
On the 1¢ coin 1909
On the 5¢ coin 1938
On the 10¢ coin 1916
On the 25¢ coin 1892
On the 50¢ coin 1866
On the $1 coin 1866
On the $1 "Trade Dollar" coin 1873
On the 1/4 Eagle coin 1908
On the 1/2 Eagle coin 1866
On the 1 Eagle coin 1866
On the Double Eagle coin 1866
on currency, some time in the 1950's, IIRC.

Not quite a whole-hearted Civil War propoganda effort...

A real Sothroner would call it "The War Between The States"...

628 posted on 01/17/2002 5:30:08 PM PST by null and void
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To: sweetliberty
How many of you still see the America you grew up in?

Even the Flag isn't the same one I was born under...

629 posted on 01/17/2002 5:32:47 PM PST by null and void
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To: Servant of the Nine
Sorry Servant but North Carolina was covered up with Quakers and other religious congregations. They may not have all had formal churches with nice shining steeples but that was not my point. Religion was deeply ingrained in the American culture long before the Civil War. You implied that it was not. Pick up any legal document including wills written before that time and you will usually find words such as "In The Name Of God, Amen," as a preamble.
630 posted on 01/17/2002 5:38:57 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: null and void
"Even the Flag isn't the same one I was born under..."

Me either, but that's the least of our problems. Too many people born under the flag give it no honor at all. There are certain things that should be required for citizenship...the FIRST being that you got in the country LEGALLY! You should HAVE to be familiar with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and some basic American history. You should HAVE to learn the language! And you should come here with something to contribute (besides a vote for whatever sleazeball democrat happens to be running for public office). Some of these things are just common sense...but again, we seemed to have sacrificed that on the altar of political correctness too!

631 posted on 01/17/2002 5:42:49 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: ValerieUSA
"As Americans, protecting and defending ourselves and our nation is our responsibility. Ours. We must stop letting the government render us ineffective with their own ineffective "security" measures that rob us of our freedoms and rights and means of self-defense."

Very well said. I couldn't agree more.

632 posted on 01/17/2002 5:44:52 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: null and void
A real Sothroner would call it "The War Between The States

Wrong. Real Southerners call it by its real name, "THE WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION."

633 posted on 01/17/2002 5:47:22 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: null and void
Salmon Chase put 'in god we trust ' on the penny in 1863

So9

634 posted on 01/17/2002 5:48:45 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: catpuppy
I Quit

Trying to discuss religion is a joke.

No matter what is said, no opinions are going to change

So9

635 posted on 01/17/2002 5:53:26 PM PST by Servant of the Nine
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To: Servant of the Nine
Dear Servant, With all due respect, my precious friend, Wrong.
First, I don't know how many of the Founding Fathers were or were not Deists, for the sake of arguement I will defer to you on that point. Second, my understanding of the First Amendment is slightly different from yours. If my memory serves me correctly, I think it says, Congress shall not enact any laws establishing a religion nor shall they prohibit worshiping. I don't totally disagree with your point about practicing "... public religiosity rather than private religion.", that speaks to our mutual Episcopalian upbringing. However, as members of the greater Christain community I believe there are times when we are called upon to speak out publically in defense of our rights to worship, to help others and as a statement of our faith. Lastly, the "In God We Tust" quote was part of the emailed letter that I recieved. I didn't say it was a motto or creedo of the Founding Fathers. Sugah. :)
636 posted on 01/17/2002 6:04:10 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: Servant of the Nine
Oh, don't quit. We are just playing. But facts is facts. It is either this or Ratty.
637 posted on 01/17/2002 6:04:30 PM PST by catpuppy
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To: catpuppy
Thank you, cp. Nice to see you this evening. :)
638 posted on 01/17/2002 6:06:56 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: Servant of the Nine
I can tell you that in North Carolina, a well settled State, at the time of the Revolution there were 2 Christian Churches. One at New Salem and one at Hillsborough.


Sorry Swervie, but you are waaaaaay wrong about that. Within 15 miles of here I can think of at least 3 different churches that have tombstones that date back to mid-1700's. Furthermore, nearly EVERY small community has a church in it... this didn't just happen overnight, it has always been that way.

639 posted on 01/17/2002 6:09:04 PM PST by gratefulwharffratt
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To: Servant of the Nine
Dear Dahlin' Servant, Whatzzupwidcha ? You know very well that this country has always set quite a store in our churches. Think about it, it was in the steeple of the Old North Church that two lanterns were to be hung as a warning if the British soldiers would be arriving by water rather than by land. Granted, it was probably the tallest structure around but the church was there and a well established part of the community at the time of the revolution and it subsequently played a part in our founding history. :)
640 posted on 01/17/2002 6:26:26 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: innocentbystander
Hey - most of todays asians are much more western than eastern. they get it. ;-)
641 posted on 01/17/2002 6:29:42 PM PST by lodwick
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To: Darlin'
So what are we talkin', anyway?
642 posted on 01/17/2002 6:29:54 PM PST by Letitring
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To: Letitring
Hey girlfriend, A little bit of everything from immigrants to the Founding Fathers to churches to the WTC memorail. Just jump in or pick a new topic and put it on the table. We'll talk about it. LOL
643 posted on 01/17/2002 6:38:30 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: catpuppy
"Real Southerners call it by its real name, "THE WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION."

Give him a break catpuppy; he's been away a long time!

644 posted on 01/17/2002 6:40:21 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: Darlin';ValerieUSA;Servant of the Nine;Mo1;Null and Void
Patrick Henry has noted: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians, not by religions, but by the gospel of Jesus Christ."

Samuel Adams, just after the 13 colonies voted to separate from England said: "We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom alone men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting sun, may His kingdom come."

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." - George Santayana.

"The only foundation for a republic is to be laid in Religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." Benjamin Rush, college professor and physician.

"It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this official act my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being, who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States...Every step by which they have advanced seems to have been distinguished by some providential agency. We ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained." George Washington, President of the United States.

"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams, Founding Father.

"Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that their liberties are the gift of God?" Thomas Jefferson, President of the United States.

"Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers." First Chief Justice, John Jay, and Governor of New York.

"Where there is no religion, there is no morality...with the loss of religion...the ultimate foundation of confidence is blown up; and of life, liberty and property are buried in ruins." Timothy Dwight, President, Yale University, July 4, 1798.

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the scriptures ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible." Noah Webster, compiler of the American Dictionary of the English Language in 1828.

"Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all the blessings which flow from them, must fall with them." Jedidiah Morse, father of American Geography. Also father of Samuel Morse inventor of the telegraph and "Morse Code".

"It is impossible to mentally or socially enslave a Bible-reading people." Horace Greeley founder of the New York Tribune.

"It is my conviction that the fundamental trouble with the people of the United States is that they have gotten too far away from Almighty God." Warren G. Harding, 29th President of the United States.

"If we and our posterity shall be true to the Christian religion, if we and they shall live always in the fear of God and shall respect His Commandments...we may have the highest hopes of the future fortunes of our country...But if we and our posterity neglect religious instruction and authority, violate the rules of eternal justice, trifle with the injunctions of morality, and recklessly destroy the political constitution which holds us together, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us that shall bury all our glory in profound obscurity." Daniel Webster

645 posted on 01/17/2002 6:44:58 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: catpuppy; sweetliberty
"Real Southerners call it by its real name, "THE WAR OF NORTHERN AGGRESSION."

On occasion when my Grandmother was feeling very charitable she called it " that recent unplesantness" :) LOL

646 posted on 01/17/2002 6:47:47 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: Darlin'
"it was in the steeple of the Old North Church that two lanterns were to be hung as a warning if the British soldiers would be arriving by water rather than by land"

Of course they would have been in trouble with the ACLU these days and the church would probably lose its tax exempt status for becoming involved in politics.

647 posted on 01/17/2002 6:49:53 PM PST by sweetliberty
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To: sweetliberty;null and void;catpuppy
Give him a break catpuppy; he's been away a long time!


Yeah CP, and don't forget, he has a body-sized cavity in his basement that needs to be filled.

And he IS a disgruntled ex-employee, who has had many stressful personal relationships in his home, many involving law enforcement.

Why, just the other day he was changing all the locks in his home as a result of his 'alternative' lifestyle... The people he 'associates' with are so scary, that he can't even successfully report them to the police!!!!

Do you REALLY want to poke him in the ribs too many times??

648 posted on 01/17/2002 6:51:19 PM PST by gratefulwharffratt
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To: gratefulwharffratt; Yall
I just heard from our Dahlin' Swerv, he didn't really quit, or fall off the planet. He's been having trouble posting tonight and FR just froze up on him when he tried to respond. He lives to fight another day. FOFL

Is that what happened to alnost everybody else ? ? One muinute we're all here and the next almost all are gone. FOFL....

649 posted on 01/17/2002 6:58:41 PM PST by Darlin'
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To: sweetliberty
LOL. No doubt.
650 posted on 01/17/2002 7:00:24 PM PST by Darlin'
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