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Missing [San diego] girl's neighbor went to desert, beach and back
San Diego Union-Tribune ^ | 9 February 2002 | Kelly Thornton Elizabeth Fitzsimons and Joe Hughes

Posted on 02/09/2002 6:53:27 AM PST by crypt2k

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To: diefree
I don't put much stock in the emotional aspect either. One on one, in an upsetting situation, I tend to cry, but let there be several people there, and I can appear to be very detached. If they are taking some sort of sedative, or anti depressant to help them deal with this, and that wouldn't surprise me, they might really appear to be calm.
121 posted on 02/09/2002 12:29:06 PM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
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To: diefree
Didn't the Ramseys shed a tear or two?

Yes, but even Clinton can cry if the situation warrants tears.

I'm not going to pursue whether or not the Ramseys were involved in the death of their child because I don't know. Their behavior made me feel uncomfortable for reasons that are not clear to me. Sort've like the feeling you get when you decide not to sit next to someone and you're not sure why. Incompatible vibes, I guess. I feel the same discomfort about Danielle's parents. This does not mean they are guilty.

122 posted on 02/09/2002 12:29:35 PM PST by lsee
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To: Travis McGee
I just thought of something. Maybe the reason they didn't check the children when they saw the alarm blinking & door open is that they assumed it was just one of their swinging friends.
123 posted on 02/09/2002 12:33:42 PM PST by ARCADIA
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To: lsee
I think the same way about the Ramseys but then again it seems the police bungled the investigation.
124 posted on 02/09/2002 12:33:52 PM PST by diefree
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To: KantianBurke
Am I forgetting any other obvious thing

Only that you don't know anymore then anybody else but have already convicted everybody involved. I hope that was sarcasm.

You might turn out to be right, but you simply don't have enough information to say anything now.

125 posted on 02/09/2002 12:37:59 PM PST by Dinsdale
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To: Diddle E. Squat
I agree. Not a random abduction. More on the parent/neighbor connection will come out.
126 posted on 02/09/2002 12:38:06 PM PST by ARCADIA
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
I took my daughter to the hospital because she had a bad headache and was crying. They found that she had spinal meningitis. I acted, in front of her, like it was no big thing. When they told me that they had to do a spinal tap on her to make sure, I almost fainted, but I never let on how worried I was.
127 posted on 02/09/2002 12:43:51 PM PST by diefree
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To: BunnySlippers
To fake crying they should learn from the preachers, when you are about to start talking about how much Jesus sacraficed, you dip your pencil eraser in some onion juice (typically ready in the ash try) and touch it to the corner of your eye (only takes one). Then again they are some of the best actors and con-men in the world.
128 posted on 02/09/2002 12:47:32 PM PST by Dinsdale
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To: crypt2k
I only saw a minute of the parents sitting on a couch, with the mom speaking to the Camera, with Him looking at the wife-Full Profile of the Dad for about a minute and he didn't look at the camera.I had to change the channel.Man,at least look at around the room,geez.
129 posted on 02/09/2002 1:03:49 PM PST by Pagey
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To: diefree
I took my daughter to the hospital because she had a bad headache and was crying. They found that she had spinal meningitis. I acted, in front of her, like it was no big thing.

When my daughter was diagnosed with pneumonia (she was very ill, I thought with just a cold and cough; I was clueless, I had never seen pneumonia or experienced it myself), I guess I didn't display enough emotion to the doctor, who called me a few hours later at home, expressing how seriously ill my daughter was, if she didn't improve in the next couple days, to call and bring her back in. This is a doctor who knows me, knows I take good care of my children, and who's never had to treat my children will any other serious illness (before or since). Lack of emotional display does not mean lack of genuine concern. But others may perceive that to be the case.

130 posted on 02/09/2002 1:56:02 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: crypt2k ; terilyn
Pierce said he was shocked when Brenda van Dam showed him Danielle's journal. " 'Daddy, please forgive me,' " Pierce said one entry read. " 'Daddy please love me. Danielle.' "

Pierce is attempting to propel himself into some type of major role here. That quote, if true, can be attributed to a multitude of non-abuse related situations. For example, Danielle may have been punished for not doing her homework and, being a child, got a little dramatic in her personal diary. Notice Pierce does not reveal what the cause of Danielle's distress was.

There can be big money in salaries and perks while running a non-profit agency that garners large amounts donations. Getting your name and the name of your organization in the public eye helps alot. Pierce clearly oversteps his bounds when calling for outside protection for the renaining children. That is not his call to make and he is impeding the investigation by the San Diego PD.

131 posted on 02/09/2002 1:59:59 PM PST by RGSpincich
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To: Bug
"So, go ahead and exercise your rights. You're entitled. But you're not helping the victims. You're impeding the investigation."

You are so completely off-base on this that I despair of being able to explain the concept of Constitutionally-protected privacy and property rights to you.

And, if you think that happily cooperating with anything and everything that the police want at all times is going to make them look more "favorably" upon you, you are dead wrong. In point of fact, many guilty people eagerly cooperate with requests for warrantless searches. Hard to believe, but true.

All I can say is that exercising your rights (that is, the right to keep silent, the right to be represented by counsel, and the right to refuse searches without a warrant) does NOT indicate guilt. It demonstrates that you are not an utter fool!

132 posted on 02/09/2002 2:07:17 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE;Bug
. . . if you think that happily cooperating with anything and everything that the police want at all times is going to make them look more "favorably" upon you, you are dead wrong. In point of fact, many guilty people eagerly cooperate with requests for warrantless searches. Hard to believe, but true.

All I can say is that exercising your rights (that is, the right to keep silent, the right to be represented by counsel, and the right to refuse searches without a warrant) does NOT indicate guilt. It demonstrates that you are not an utter fool!

Well said and very true. Our Founding Fathers had a reason to secure each American citizen's protections....abuse of power, for one, innocent until proven guilty, for another; our Fifth Amendment for the right not to say something that can be [twisted around and taken out of context] used against you for yet another.

133 posted on 02/09/2002 2:15:16 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
Interesting that you interpreted the doctor's phone call that way. Many doctors call because they aren't quite sure whether to hospitalize or send the patient home. By calling the parent, the doctor stresses that the patient needs to go to the ER if there is any deterioration, plus, the doctor can alay their own anxieties by asking about the status of the patient. Medicine is not cookbook, black-n-white, etc. Doctors agonize and cogitate on patients, even after they leave the office. But it is interesting that you interpreted the phone call the way you did.
134 posted on 02/09/2002 2:16:31 PM PST by Kay
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To: RGSpincich
Pierce is attempting to propel himself into some type of major role here.

I heard Pierce on KFI, disregard the note, here is what is troubling. There is no outside access to that girl's bedroom. She lives on the second floor, there is no balcony, ladder, trees, in fact it is highly lit with no natural cover.

Whoever took her out of that house, most likely knew the layout of the house. They had to go from downstairs, to her room, abduct her without waking the parents, or the family dog, and bring her back down stairs, through an exposed area with heavy lighting without being detected.

This does not sound like a stranger case. It may not be the parents, but somebody they know.

The story on KFMB was not just that they had an orgy at the house that night, but that the mother went clubbing, had sex with some strange man in the parking lot of the club, went back home with friends, then locked themselves into the garage and had a sex orgy while smoking pot.

The report of KFMB also stated that Westerfield basically confessed to the cops, stating in essence, I can take you to her, but I need a lawyer first. The theory being that her remains are his bargaining chip for life instead of lethal injection, once her body is found he is toast.

They also reported that he volunteered to host a sex orgy in his house for this swinging group. The mom knows him better than she is claiming.

Having said all this, my guess is that Westerfield had sex with the mom and her friends, maybe with the husband too for that matter, he abducted the girl, assaulted and killed her, the parents "know" he did it, aren't technically involved, but realize how bad they would look if they told the whole unvarnished truth.

135 posted on 02/09/2002 2:22:56 PM PST by dogbyte12
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To: Kay
Don't get me wrong; I appreciated the docotor's call. My sense for his call seemed to impart more about telling me, again, how very sick my daughter was...he explained and expressed this clearly, however, earlier in his office. I felt his call was because I seemed kind of "nonchalant" to him about her pneumonia. I am not one to panic in these kinds of situations. I know what I needed to do, what to watch for, how to proceed, etc. She was on meds and all I could do was make sure she took them and watch her symptoms....kind of wait and see if it works or not (obviously, if not, I'd have brought her into E.R. during the night if she wasn't breathing right). That was just my gut impression about his call.
136 posted on 02/09/2002 2:25:44 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo; bug
Well, at least there is someone here who "gets it"!

Think of the cases of people wrongly porosecuted and even convicted, and how many of them "cooperated fully", giving up their rights to do so- only to find themselves in prison!

I am very far from a "cop-basher", but I also know that the aim of investigators is to CLOSE CASES- and that means finding someone to prosecute. I do not think that there are many cases of intemntional wrongful prosecution, but we have seen on this thread just how easy it can be to convince oneself of anothers guilt, even with the flimsiest of evidence.

137 posted on 02/09/2002 2:27:39 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: RANGERAIRBORNE;Bug
I am very far from a "cop-basher", but I also know that the aim of investigators is to CLOSE CASES- and that means finding someone to prosecute.

I'm no cop-basher either. But we've all seen what happens when someone is given unlimited power. Who was is that said: "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely"? Look at Stalin, Mao, and Hitler. There are many others one can cite. Our Founding Fathers were well-read; they remembered the horrors and atrocities committed in tyrannical nations. Without our protections, we could have easily become another Roman or Nazi empire.

138 posted on 02/09/2002 2:35:36 PM PST by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
"Without our protections, we could have easily become another Roman or Nazi empire."

We still may. Rights which are given up by the people are rarely regained, except by very painful means. It would be better to hold onto the rights we have, than to fight for them again.

By the way, it was Lord Acton who was credited with the "Power corrupts..." aphorism- but I think he was echoing a Roman (Cicero?)

139 posted on 02/09/2002 2:43:32 PM PST by RANGERAIRBORNE
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To: It's me
Well for starters when he was towed out of the sand he took off leaving his leveling ramps behind. Sure was in a hurry. And who drives out to Glamis twice in a weekend? And only stays a short while. It is not a short drive from San Diego. This guy first met the mother and daughter a week before while they were selling Girl Scout cookies in the neighborhood. If he knew the mother was still out it would have made it much easier to see where the father was and sneek in the house. And the reports here in San Diego are that the guy had child porn. I guess the moral of this story will be not to sell Girl Scout cookies to neighbors and make them aware of you.
140 posted on 02/09/2002 2:51:39 PM PST by willyone
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