[Mr. Toobeley]

Well, let me--as a humble Christian fundamentalist, and an admitted minority--suggest that Israel might have an even bigger problem on its hands than hostile Arabs: look at Leviticus 18:24-28 and consider that Israel, whose claim to its territory appears to rest upon God having initially given it to them, is now a thoroughly secularized modern state, probably with most of the beliefs and worldly behavioral patterns of such a state. As such, it is only the latest of one of countless "kingdoms" that have occupied the land in question down thru the millennia. If you accept that the God of the Old Testament still exists (and I know few people do), and if you accept that what he says doesn't change with the times, could it be that Israel might actually be "defiling" the land as they defiled it back in King Solomon's day? And wouldn't it follow, then, that the land everyone seems to be fighting about is simply getting ready to spew out yet another defiler (V. 27), as it did to this very same nation shortly after King Solomon's reign? Gee, it all seems so clear from a fundamentalist point of view (and the solution seems clear, too), but, of course, it wouldn't even occur to either Hitchens or any thoroughly secularized diplomat. I would like to get the input of a truly Conservative Jewish rabbi on these questions. Any of them on this forum?

[Salman]

... look at Leviticus 18:24-28 and consider that Israel, whose claim to its territory appears to rest upon God having initially given it to them,

Not quite true. Religious Zionists believe this, but most early Zionists (pre-1948) were secular nationalist types, with some socialists thrown in.

is now a thoroughly secularized modern state, probably with most of the beliefs and worldly behavioral patterns of such a state.

As envisioned by most of its founders.

[a_witness]

Well, let me--as a humble Christian fundamentalist, and an admitted minority--suggest that Israel might have an even bigger problem on its hands

Hokay, just so we know where you are coming from. You are a German citizen in the 1930s sitting smugly at your table with folded hands, praying and lamenting the crimes of the Jewish people, but you really can't get involved. They are being judged, after all and it is none of your affair. Is that what you are saying?

[Nachum]

If you accept that the God of the Old Testament still exists (and I know few people do), and if you accept that what he says doesn't change with the times, could it be that Israel might actually be "defiling" the land as they defiled it back in King Solomon's day?

Traditional Judaism would reject that argument for a number of reasons. First of all, the events of the return of so many Jews to the land might be looked as "the footsteps of Moshiach". These are part and parcel of those events that herald the coming of Moshiach in Jewish prophesy.

Another reason, but not quite as easily defended is that the temple has not yet been rebuilt and therefore not capable of being defiled. Consequently all who live on the land are impure.

In any event, the problems associated with a secular Jewish state were long feared by traditional Jews as a reason not to support Zionism or the modern government of Israel. This does not take away from the obligation to support and defend Jews in the holy land. This is how observant Jews who do not support a secular government, fully support all measures of defense of the Jews living on the land.