Solar Sail launch

South China Morning Post ^ | 4 Apr 02 | staff

[Arkie2]

In what sounds like a purely fantastic voyage, a private US- Russian group that promotes planetary exploration plans to use the power of light to sail a giant windmill-shaped contraption through space.

The Planetary Society, founded by the late astronomer Carl Sagan and others, said on Monday the vehicle featured reflective surfaces that would be propelled when particles of light - photons - hit it.

The craft, with its 30-metre sails, is to be launched on a converted Russian intercontinental ballistic missile from a submarine in the Barents Sea this year at a cost of about US$4 million (HK$31.1 million). The so-called solar-sail technology has been theorised as a means for space travel for decades but was never put into practice, said Louis Friedman, one of the society's co- founders and its current chief.

Mr Friedman, who worked with Nasa on solar-sail technology in the 1970s, said it might make interstellar flight possible much sooner than expected.

The mission does not aim to travel between the stars or planets, but merely show that the technology exists to make it possible, Mr Friedman said. Reuters

[Arkie2]

NASA should be doing research like this. It's cheap and has enormous potential.

[Lumberjack]

You've not only made an asstute observation, you've also explained why NASA is *not* doing this kind of research. Their purpose is not to get the common man into space. Look at how they treated Tito when he went up, like he was a mentaly unbalanced disruptive child. NASA's sole purpose is to gather more funds to finance their leader's pet projects, and little else.

NASA is probably the biggest reason we are all not in space right now, IMO. If private industry had been involved and left alone to pursue this goal from the get go, there's a fair chance that there would be cities on the moon right now and we'd be mining the astroid belt for fun and profit. Instead we have multi-billion dollar launches of an inefficient spacecraft with wings every so often to take up politicians and other government employees to install government funded satellites. Whee.

[Brett66]

Indexing & BTTT.

[Arkie2]

This idea has been around forever. When I was a kid (several decades ago) I read a Sci Fi story about a solar yacht race to Mars using Solar Sails. There have been other attempts to test these things but if I recall correctly the last attempt failed because the sails didn't unfurl properly. If one of these things ever "flies" the public will eat it up. Maybe then NASA will pay attention.

[zog]

--I know I read the book, but which sci-fi guy was it who wrote what about the solar sails? Arthur Clarke I think but can't remember it now, was way back mid sixties I think I read it.

[Arkie2]

I had to Google it to find the answer and sure enough it was Arthur C Clarke. Info is below. I made a misstatement in my original post. The previous launch failed because of an upper stage seperation failure.

Arthur Clarke wrote in 1963 a short science fiction story "The Wind from the Sun" about an international race in the far future, between spaceships propelled by solar sails. It can be found in a collection of Clarke's stories, also titled "The Wind from the Sun," published in 1972 by Harcourt, Brace and Jovanovich, inc.

[MadRobotArtist]

It's interesting that you say that. I am positive that if the private sector were allowed to pursue it, there would be colonies and citites on the moon, even Mars. Isn't it interesting that the government doesn't want private business to do this? I mean, why do we have to get permission from the government to colonize space? Did Bill Gates have to ask the governments permission to build Microsoft or create software? No he didn't. What's stopping us, the average guy from going into space? Is it the threat of causing a war with a rocket launch that isn't scheduled?

What could possibly be so secret that we the people can't just do what we want, and put our own people into space. I watch this thing being used as a symbol, like the clock in the movie Metropolis. It's all a big illusion. There is No space program that will ever get people moved to the moon, Mars, or anywhere but here. For the next 100 years, there will be the same launches, the smoke and mirrors, and nothing will change on this planet.

[Lumberjack]

Its not a matter of what's "secret" in space. There is no secret that I know of, except one. In space, if "We The People" were to get there, we'd find that government would have little to no say in our lives (after the initial colonization movement of course). Its what I think is called Frontier Situation or something like that. At the edge of a frontier there is no controling government authority, there is only strong willed, independent, self-reliant explorers and colonists. The very type of person that governments have always hated.

NASA is much like the ancient Chinese explorers who searched around a bit for their Emperors. They were government financed, of course, and each journey away from China was a Glorious event, as were their return. Of course, nothing ever came of these journeys, since they were for the Glory of the Empire (or whatever they referred to themselves as), as opposed to journey's for trade and profit. History rewarded those who journey for profit, hence the existance of America. Those who journey for government glory show no return, no future and no interest in having your or I along for the ride.

Note how these people are going to launch this thing. From a sub in the middle of the ocean, almost like it was a covert operation or something. More power to them, and I hope they make lots of dough doing it.

[Arkie2]

My guess is the sub launch is the cheapest option. It's a Russian sub and they've been selling off a lot of their old military capability. The first launch I mentioned was also from a Russian sub and it failed because of the upper stage seperation failure. You get what you pay for I guess. I wish them all the luck in the world however.

[APBaer]

Question: Why is it being launched near the North Pole?
I thought launching was most efficient near the equator due
to the higher velocity of the earth's surface rotation.

[Arkie2]

The idea is even older than I thought. Check out the following info.

Nearly 400 years ago astronomer Johannes Kepler observed comet tails blown by a solar breeze and suggested that vessels might likewise navigate through space using appropriately fashioned sails. It is now widely recognized that sunlight does indeed produce a force which moves comet tails and a large, reflective sail could be a practical means of propelling a spacecraft.

[Arkie2]

My guess is because that Russian sub is based near there and sailing to an equatorial launch site would cost a lot more if the sub is even seaworthy. Here's some more info which explains why NASA isn't flying this mission. Typical government answer!

According to Hoppy Price, manager of solar sail technology at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, "NASA would not be willing to launch the mission that (The Planetary Society) is launching, because NASA's funded by the public. Whenever we lose a mission ... Congress and the public rightfully have a hard time with that. So NASA has some pretty high standards because we're using the taxpayers' money, and we really don't want to have failures." Garvey appreciates NASA's position. "If the government's involved, people have a right to expect a certain level of success, that their tax dollars aren't being wasted. The Planetary Society can live with maybe a 10 percent chance of failure. NASA might have to live with a 1 percent chance of failure."

[zog]

--thanks, glad I sorta remembered correctly. The concept definetly has merit, given that mylar is so lightweight but strong. Well, I'm assuming the sails are mylar. heh. I think it's pretty neat meself. Ain't there some dood over in oregon or washington state who's building his own one guy rocket? Was reading about that, too. non orbital, just up, technically into space, then back down. The other deal I read and heard an interview on was this proposal to use space shuttle fuel tanks as space stations and start linking them together, hilton hotels I believe is part sponsor of the studies.

[Lumberjack]

That's a good hypothesis, I'd buy that. I wonder why we're not using similar launch vehicles?

I think we could learn a lot from watching how this pans out, not just whether the sail works or not, but how private individuals can get things into space. It should be an interesting exercise.

[Arkie2]

Actually, Mylar is out of favor because it's too heavy. The newest sails are constructed of carbon fiber. The carbon construction will also allow them to fly closer to the sun to get more thrust because the carbon is more heat resistant.

[Arkie2]

Boeing has actually launched a couple of missiles from a floating platform in the Gulf although I believe I read that they gave it up because it was unprofitable. I could be wrong though.

[TomSmedley]

--I know I read the book, but which sci-fi guy was it who wrote what about the solar sails? Arthur Clarke I think but can't remember it now, was way back mid sixties I think I read it

Yes, it was A.C. Clarke. Published in Boy's Life magazine, house organ of the Boy Scouts of America. "Space tastees -- guaranteed crumbless"

[Andrew Wiggin]

The other deal I read and heard an interview on was this proposal to use space shuttle fuel tanks as space stations and start linking them together, hilton hotels I believe is part sponsor of the studies.

One of the Apollo astronauts (Buzz Aldrin?) is pushing that idea. It makes sense to me.

[StriperSniper]

"If the government's involved, people have a right to expect a certain level of success, that their tax dollars aren't being wasted.

Thanks for the belly laugh!

[biblewonk]

Potential for what? The only long range mission of any interest is to the one where they do paralax measurements on stars for more accurate distance data.