Police are beginning to use information from air bag sensors in crash inquiries

St. Louis Post-Dispatch ^ | 8-25-02 | Cathy Mong

[FairWitness]

DAYTON, Ohio - The 1999 Pontiac Trans Am had to be flying, said officer Robert Cairo, a traffic crash investigator with the police in Trotwood, Ohio.

The car skidded sideways off the road on Feb. 11, went airborne for 110 feet, landed in a field and bounced "like a stone across a lake" before it struck a utility pole, according to police. The impact ejected the driver, who broke his neck, and a passenger, who broke his spine.

[FairWitness]

The device isn't obvious to car owners unless they pore over the vehicle owner's manual.

The air bag module, sometimes referred to as the automobile version of the "black box" found on commercial airliners, - - -

Data stored in the unit include the engine revolution speed, whether the brakes or throttle were in use and the speed of the vehicle. The module also records whether seat belts were worn.

Coming soon - an automobile version of the "cockpit voice recorder"?

[Tennessee_Bob]

Coming soon - an automobile version of the "cockpit voice recorder"?

Already in place with some vehicles. Those equipped with systems like Onstar (which uses a GPS to help locate vehicles in need of help) have had their data recorded for awhile now. There was a lawsuit a few years back (when I was working for EDS) because some organizations wanted to take the tracking information and use it for accident investigation - that way, they could get speed, heading, and the like for the thirty seconds or so prior to the accident. The lawsuit ended up going to the privacy advocates, and the data was kept private.

[alfa6]

I figured you all had heard about the new "Black Box " recorders on some of the 4X4's that capture the last 20 seconds or so of audio in the cab.
Most of the ones from Texas the last sound heard was..."Hey y'all watch this"
And now you now where the phrase "Here, huld muh beer" comes from. (grin)

Actually I am of mixed feelings about this data. On one hand it would be nice to know the pertinet data so that accidents could be accuaretly reconstructed. OTOH the privacy issues are pretty thorny. And don't even mention the court order bit, that sounds like a ruse to keep the masses happy.

Oh well, I guess as with most things of this nature you will be able to buy the "Anti Black Box Black Box" thru ads in the back of Popular Mechanics and what not before to long.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[Mamzelle]

A useful tool for car mfgers to defend themselves in court against the reckless "it's Detroit's fault" drivers and greedy lawyers. It's also a tool for plaintiff's atties against drivers. But drivers' pockets aren't as deep as carmakers, so this isn't good news for the lawyers.

[Glenn]

Full disclosure with the choice of disconnecting the device should be the order of the day. Everyone is served. Those who choose to disconnect it will simply have a tougher row to hoe in court should it come to that. I'd probably leave it connected as I drive safely and might need it should some moron drunk driver tag me one late night (or early afternoon).

[yoe]

"Coming soon - an automobile version of the "cockpit voice recorder"?

We have the black box in airplanes don't we? I don't see a problem here as long as the owner of the vehicle knows the devise is there. Insurance companies may not like it.........

[Jaidyn]

I dont' know if I like it or not. Suppose you are speeding and the car that hits you isn't but the other driver was negligent? I read where a car ran a stop sign and hit another car who's driver had been drinking. The drinker got a dui and had to take responsibility for the accident. Before they are done, we could be arrested by our own vehicles.

[DManA]

Driving is a privilege so there is no 5th amendment.
[sarcasm off]

[FairWitness]

We have the black box in airplanes don't we? I don't see a problem here as long as the owner of the vehicle knows the devise is there.

I wonder how easy it would be to upgrade the "recorder" so that it could also transmit data to an outside receiver? Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me.

[muir_redwoods]

These have been in your cars for a few years now. I work for an Ins. Comp[any and we routinely access this info in cases that go to court. We've been able to convince more than a few plaintiff's attornies that maybe they didn't have a very good case.

I don't like them. I know it sounds paranoid but it won't be long before the things start including an electronic signature that activates any time the driver violates the speed limit and broadcasts an ID to the police.

[FairWitness]

Dittoes. See #9 above.

[texas booster]

The Pilots Union fought the cockpit data recorders when they were first proposed. Their fear was that Monday morning quarterbacks would dissect the tape and always find a way to blame the pilot. I am sure that mile high clubs declined for a while when they were first introduced, but the union and the pilots have ligitamate concerns.

Similar systems are already in place in commercial trucking fleets. When I drove a truck I only had to fear the governor and my truck log. Now it is nearly all automated electronic logs, some GPS and black box recorders. It's a great help to accident investigators, and a time bomb for many drivers.

In Texas we have "joint and severally" (sp?) laws in place in which a defendant can be 1% in the wrong and become 100% liable for damages. It doubled commercial insurance rates when the manufacturers of brake systems, tires and truck bodies were sued in accidents where the driver of the truck had stolen the truck and was fleeing cops, or was completely drunk, and had a wreck.

I love the technology to solve accidents, but in the hands of a lawyer or a politician it will be used to hang citizens and destroy privacy rights, eventually.

[FairWitness]

I love the technology to solve accidents, but in the hands of a lawyer or a politician it will be used to hang citizens and destroy privacy rights, eventually.

Very interesting analysis.