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UGH.
1 posted on 09/16/2002 10:09:20 AM PDT by vannrox
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To: vannrox
OK, here's how to refute this:
2 posted on 09/16/2002 10:15:12 AM PDT by AmishDude
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To: vannrox
Saddam is not mad enough to think that he could invade and annex Kuwait, surely?
3 posted on 09/16/2002 10:15:32 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: vannrox
Saddam is indeed one sick pup.
4 posted on 09/16/2002 10:16:57 AM PDT by wardaddy
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To: vannrox
"he is a suicidal lunatic"

If you look at his "strategy" for starting the Iran / Iraq war, and invading Kuwait, you can easily come to the conclusion Saddam is a lunatic. He need not initially have suicidal tendencies to still be a nut with a nuke. Even a "primitive" nuclear device can ruin your whole day.

Bush Doctrine II: No terroristic nuts with nukes.

5 posted on 09/16/2002 10:18:45 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie
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To: vannrox
I also think it unlikely that Saddam would pop a nuke on us. Not directly, at any rate.

The likely risks are these:

1) Saddam gives the device to a terrorist cell to infiltrate into the U.S. and tries to cover his tracks.

2) Even more likely: Saddam uses the bomb for nuclear blackmail. He invades Kuwait and the Gulf States and then warns: "If you try stopping me, I'll obliterate Tel Aviv, Ankara, Rome, or even New York."

At that point, a U.S. President would have few options to consider, and none of them would be very attractive.

7 posted on 09/16/2002 10:28:53 AM PDT by The Iguana
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To: vannrox
This guy abviously missed the point of the UN speech and does not understand how terrorism works.

At any rate, it does concern me that Iraq/alQaeda (one in the same to me) likely has cells awaiting a US invasion to launch a bio/chem/(nuke?) attack on US soil. I'm no military expert, but this situation makes me think we should find out where Saddam is hiding, cut off all of his communications to his troops/terrorists, and send Delta Force in to get the scumbag without anyone in the world knowing it. That way we might pre-empt any "if they attack, you release WMD X in NY, LA, DC" actions because there will be no fireworks on the news to clearly trigger an their attack. Once the sleeper cells figure out that leadership has changed without a war, they might not attack. Who knows. I am am just glad that we have Bush in there. This "dope" has beaten the democrats at their own game time and time again. That makes me more confident that they can beat Saddam at his game.
8 posted on 09/16/2002 10:33:19 AM PDT by txjeep
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To: vannrox
I think his father wrote a great article many years ago:

Hitler is not that mad, surely?

10 posted on 09/16/2002 10:37:21 AM PDT by TomB
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To: vannrox
To believe that Saddam is likely to attack the west - the only justification for war - is to believe he is a suicidal lunatic.

Sigh. No, it is not, you narrow-minded idiot.

This strain of anti-war argument is especially pathetic, because it betrays a huge lack of imagination on the part of the speaker. Evidently people like this author think that (a) the only violence Saddam can do or cause against us would come in the form of an Announced, Massive Attack In A War He Declares Against Us, and that therefore (b) if he doesn't do that, we're all safe. The rest of the argument is indeed quite simple: "He won't do that, because he's not suicidal."

There's one problem. That's not the only way Saddam and his WMDs can harm us. He can give them to other people to use. He can secretly spin off elements of his armed forces into quasi "independent" groups which nominally Have No Official Connection To Iraq Whatsoever. Then "they" can attack us.

In short, Saddam can attack us, kill some Americans, and simply not announce to the world that he's the one behind it. Indeed, that's what he's most likely to do (this follows immediately from the anti-war "Saddam's not suicidal" argument, in fact!), and in all probability it's what he's been doing.

But this possibility - apparently - leaves the anti-war folks dumbfounded. Why, all wars are overt, they apparently think. If Saddam attacks us surely he'd put his face on a big videoscreen and make a televised-phone call to the White House to explain that he's attacking us first. After all, that's how it works on TV and in the movies. That's how "Dr. Evil" does it in those Austin Powers movies!

Again, the only type of military violence the anti-war people seem to know about and comprehend is overt, declared military strikes. Funneling materiel to terrorist groups, secretly training and aiding them, distancing himself from these private armies so he can keep his hands clean - the anti-war folks simply can't grasp any of these possibilities.

The end result is that the anti-war zealots end up (ironically) telegraphing the following message to the Saddams of the world: "If you want to attack us or do harm to us, make sure that any violence is not performed by your official armed forces, but is done through middle men and private armies to which you can marginally plausibly claim you have no 'connection'. Because, if you do so, we won't fight back at all, we'll argue with anyone who supports fighting back, and we'll wink our eyes and pretend that we actually believe your hands are clean."

That's the result of this type of narrow thinking. The result is to encourage fighting via terrorists and suitcase nukes rather than overt missile strikes and invasion forces.

And then people whose heads are steeped in reality rather than utopia have to clean up the mess and deal with the terrorists which the anti-war people invite to our shores, all the while listening to a cacophony of whines from them.

Yes, truly ironic indeed.

11 posted on 09/16/2002 10:41:23 AM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: vannrox
Even this guy's terminology is accomodationist: "marsh Arab" is a term Saddam has used for Kurds to obscure their Kurdish identity and complete the genocidal Arabization of Iraq.
12 posted on 09/16/2002 10:43:32 AM PDT by Bohemund
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To: vannrox
Essay question for Roy Hattersley:

In five pages or less, describe the fundamental nature of (a) warfare, (b) terrorism, and (c) state-sponsored terrorism. Apply your analysis to the current historical context. (20 points)

13 posted on 09/16/2002 10:47:15 AM PDT by The Great Satan
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To: vannrox
It's not just the fear that Hussein would use terrorists to deliver a nuclear bomb.

It's that Hussein would be in a position of mutually assured destruction with ourselves. That itself is the alarming prospect that calls for action.

It's nothing less than bizarre that the left recognizes exactly this danger but claims that it is a reason not to act. Whereas being under a constant threat from Sadaam of his nuking our homelands, or just our troops in the Middle East, seems to me like a dangerous thing, the left would have us believe that such a position is a description of our security.

We could argue about this, I guess, but I don't believe they even mean this. After all, these are the same critics, especially in Britain, who used to tell us that we ought to disarm unilaterally in the face of the Soviet Union. It was only our aggressive stance toward the Soviets that "caused" the poor, peace loving communists to arm themselves, you see. So their recent adoption of MAD-- and with Sadaam Hussein no less-- is just political opportunism and not a sincere belief.

For the rest of the non-lying, sane world, it's worth pointing out that MAD with Hussein puts us in a more dangerous position than in 1990. Recall that then Hussein threatened to control of most of the world's oil. Even if he didn't invade SA he would have always had the threat of doing so handy to cow the Saudis and control them. Notice that if Hussein had had a nuclear bomb he likely would have succeeded.

No, he likely wouldn't have nuked the homelands of Britain and the U.S. then. He would, however, have had a credible threat of nuking our troops during the Gulf War, a threat that likely would have kept us from liberating Kuwait. At the very least, I can't say with any confidence that we would have been likely to act.

Does anyone now think that surrendering to Hussein in the Gulf War would have been just fine? I know the psycho left thinks so, but it's worth pointing out that that is the claim they must make publicly if they're going to adopt this absurd view that MAD with Sadaam Hussein is a sensible policy position.

So, the connection to terrorism is hardly the only concern here. The concern is simply that Hussein's aggressive and determined government will be unstoppable in its Middle Eastern ambitions if Hussein gets a nuclear bomb.

14 posted on 09/16/2002 10:54:29 AM PDT by Timm
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To: vannrox
Saddam is not that mad, surely?

He is mad. And don't call me Shirley.
18 posted on 09/16/2002 11:00:51 AM PDT by BikerNYC
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To: vannrox
OK. Let's give the world their own way. F**k 'em.

Let's just protect ourselves and let these animals have at the rest of the world. I'm so go**amned sick and tired of this garbage, it makes me want to scream.

It'll take until there are burned or contorted-by-gas corpses laying around by the thousands will these MORONS be convinced. Fine.

I repeat for the hard of hearing: F**K 'em.

19 posted on 09/16/2002 11:05:19 AM PDT by RightOnline
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To: vannrox
Evil he undoubtedly is. But that is not in itself sufficient justification for starting a war that will kill thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of innocent civilians. If it were, God knows how many countries we would be preparing to invade.

Tell me again about why it was our duty to go after Milosevic?

20 posted on 09/16/2002 11:24:08 AM PDT by Maceman
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To: vannrox
But that is not in itself sufficient justification for starting a war that will kill thousands (perhaps tens of thousands) of innocent civilians.

Why is it that libs never weigh the loss of life from military action against the benefits of the same? For years now the libs have been saying that hundreds of thousands of Iraqi children have been dying due to sanctions. The liberation of Iraq will end those sanctions and give the Iraqis real hope of freedom and prosperity for the first time since independence. Since tens of thousands are supposedly dying each month a war of liberation would save Iraqi lives in both the short and long term.

23 posted on 09/16/2002 11:35:47 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: vannrox
The Iraqi leader is not about to self-destruct by attacking the US!

Yes, he is that mad, and stop calling me "Shirley."

26 posted on 09/16/2002 12:19:23 PM PDT by mhking
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To: vannrox
We didn't use to think al-Qaeda was stupid-crazy enough to hijack one plane and turn it into a suicide missile, much less four.
28 posted on 09/16/2002 12:23:25 PM PDT by RichInOC
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To: vannrox
Of course he's not mad. Psychopaths are not insane, just evil. He would never openly wage war against the U.S. But he could certainly train others to wage war against us, or against Israel.
29 posted on 09/16/2002 12:31:57 PM PDT by js1138
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To: vannrox
Not that mad...

Now who was it that turned on the pumps and tried to make the Arabian gulf into a giant oil slick.

Who was it that blew up the oil wells in Kuwait in the hopes of creating the equivalent of nuclear winter?

30 posted on 09/16/2002 2:05:56 PM PDT by ExpandNATO
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To: vannrox
Only a Liberal could say "Saddam is not that mad, surely?"

...well, maybe a Losertarian could but you get my drift.

32 posted on 09/16/2002 2:09:22 PM PDT by VaBthang4
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