In Iraq's arsenal: Nature's deadliest poison

USA Today ^ | 9/26/2002 | Steve Sternberg, USA TODAY

[ex-Texan]

In the year since an unknown bioterrorist stuffed envelopes with anthrax and mailed them, the government has stockpiled anthrax vaccine and antibiotics, planned mass vaccination campaigns and ordered 209 million fresh doses of smallpox vaccine.

Yet the United States is still unprepared to contend with other agents on its A-list of potential biowarfare threats, especially botulinum toxin, an experimental terror tool of Saddam Hussein's.

[Cogadh na Sith]

Billthedrill is right on on this one:

The toxin is probably most useful in a terrorist scare threat to a water supply, and then more so for the panic than actual mortality. On the battlefield it's virtually useless - it breaks down too rapidly to be an area denial weapon, and as mentioned above, doesn't have a handy vector to function as an antipersonnel weapon. As far as toxicity per volume it's the champ, but that's about it.

Not useful on the battlefield. A McScare McStory from the McNewspaper....

[The Great Satan]

Thanks for posting. Good info.

[SLB]

What about contaminating a food source such as fresh apples or grapes that are usually washed, but sometimes are eaten on the way home. Coule they put it into the final fill mechanism at a dairy or maybe carbonated beverage plant? Just asking as this is out of my area.

[Squantos]

They got us if they want us in this arena IMHO. Too many ways........... ya have to go after all who plan and attempt such an atrocity on civilian populace.

Stay Safe and Garden :o)

[Rebelbase]

Ditto #5. The potential for Bio-Horror is real and, IMO, would be used in a heartbeat by the sleepers if we get close to Saddam. If you have'nt prepared an evacaution route out of your urban area by now, you should do so immediately.

[Billthedrill]

Dairy would probably be nasty, carbonated beverage, probably not (too acidic). It would have to be final fill, though - pasteurization neutralizes it.

[SLB]

We have a good supply of food in the storage room. I was a "hoarder" for Y2K and am still eating SPAM from that! We have a 24 foot X 48 inch deep pool in the yard (covered of course). I figure we are good for 30 to 60 days without any problems. Plenty of rabbits, squirrels and deer around so they can supplement.

I could also go on discussing anti-biotics from vet supply companies, etc - all valuable tips - IMHO.

[MHGinTN]

Weapons grade anthrax is far more dangerous as a terrorist weapon against the American citizenry than botox (the anthrax letter deliveries were merely a test run, IMHO; sporting events and public trans systems will be the serious assault media, IMHO, if these bastards are not found and annihilated and their donors crushed--Saddam is one of only three where weapons grade anthrax has been mass produced as of the 1998 reports that led the Congress to authorize sinkEmperor carte blanche against Saddam) ... the clostridium botulinum producer of the toxin is also a very dangerous threat since it could be spread through entire metropolitan populations via public trans systems and carried home to families.

[TexasGunRunner]

I think the article is way overblown, but hey, it will further support for going after Iraq, which we need to do.

Here is the first part of an article on the "Real Deal" with NBC weapons.

Link to full article

sourced at the Washington Compost

Words of Wisdom About Gas, Germs, and Nukes By SFC Red Thomas, Armor Master Gunner

U. S. Army (Ret) 10.19.01

Since the media have decided to scare everyone with predictions of chemical, biological, or nuclear warfare on our turf I decided to write a paper and keep things in their proper perspective. I am a retired military weapons, munitions, and training expert.

Lesson number one: In the mid 1990s there was a series of nerve gas attacks on crowded Japanese subway stations. Given perfect conditions for an attack, less than 10% of the people there were injured (the injured were better in a few hours) and only one percent of the injured died. CBS-Television's 60 Minutes once had a fellow telling us that one drop of nerve gas could kill a thousand people. He didn't tell you the thousand dead people per drop was theoretical. Drill Sergeants exaggerate how terrible this stuff is to keep the recruits awake in class (I know this because I was a Drill Sergeant too).

Forget everything you've ever seen on TV, in the movies, or read in a novel about this stuff, it was all a lie (Read this sentence again out loud!). These weapons are about terror, if you remain calm, you will probably not die.

This is far less scary than the media and their "experts" make it sound. Chemical weapons are categorized as Nerve, Blood, Blister, and Incapacitating agents. Contrary to the hype of reporters and politicians, they are not weapons of mass destruction. They are means of "Area Denial," effective to keep an enemy out of a particular zone for a limited period of time: terror weapons that don't destroy anything. When you leave the area you almost always leave the risk.

That's the difference; you can leave the area and the risk. Soldiers may have to stay put and sit through it and that's why they need all that spiffy gear.

These are not gasses; they are vapors and/or airborne particles. Any such agent must be delivered in sufficient quantity to kill or injure, and that defines when and how it's used.

Every day we have a morning and evening atmospheric inversion where "stuff," suspended in the air gets pushed down. This inversion is why allergies (pollen) and air pollution are worst at these times of the day.

So, a chemical attack will have its best effect an hour of so either side of sunrise or sunset. Also, being vapors and airborne particles, the agents are heavier than air, so they will seek low places like ditches, basements and underground garages. This stuff won't work when it's freezing, it doesn't last when it's hot, and wind spreads it too thin too fast.

Attackers have to get this stuff on you, or, get you to inhale it, for it to work. They also have to get the concentration of chemicals high enough to kill or injure you: too little and it's nothing, too much and it's wasted. What I hope you've gathered by this point is that a chemical weapons attack that kills a lot of people is incredibly hard to achieve with military grade agents and equipment. So you can imagine how hard it would be for terrorists. The more you know about this stuff, the more you realize how hard it is to use.

Link to full article

[thescourged1]

It ocurred to me....
How many of those casualties from the Tokyo subway attack were from the stampede to get to the street?

[SLB]

Your take on post #29?

IMHO - some truths, some ????

[MHGinTN]

Anthrax spores spread through mass transit systems is the terrorists way to spread death and misery to the homes of the citizens. That is the purpose of terrorism. Disarm the bastards capable of producing mass quantities of anthrax spores and you go a long way to deterring a terrorist attack with said weapons.

[Squantos]

Yes . The article or letter relates to information all GI's get. But then one has to look at this from two differing sides. I as an NCO have to convince my troops that they can operate with proper training and equipment in such an environment. I operated in simulated CS/CN environments and worked in saturated confines as part of my Chemical Biological courses at Redstone for my EOD training . It Ain't easy and no matter what the military is capable of or not a civilian populace is not even going to come close to surviving such a military grade chemical or biological agent attack. They are just not equipped or trained to do so.

I don't think such agents can be introduced within the confines of the CONUS. Also IMHO and experience no one would ever able to hijack two or more commercial aircraft and fly them into a skyscraper either...........

Subjective at best. Stay Safe SLB !!

[harpseal]

We have canned a whole lot and Botulism is why we are very careful to meticulously follow the instructions. In fact botulinus is probably one of the easiest bio-toxins to aquire, just improperly can enough non-acidic foods and eventually one will have a source of the toxin. Once one has a supply of toxin spreading it is relatively easy.

[backhoe]

-Iraq...NBC Warfare...Terror--

[CharacterCounts]

Doesn't pasturization takes place after the product is bottled?

[Billthedrill]

Nope - at least not in most production dairies - it takes place in the pipes leading to the bottling area (I used to work in one). Lots easier to control that way. It works that way in breweries, too, at least those that use that process - most of the micros do not, as it messes up the complex carbohydrates that make beer so mmmm-good.

[Hammerhead]

Damn Bill,

Go on with your bid-headed bio toxin knowing self!

(as I sit hear contemplating my navel.)