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[Novak: Clinton Cooked Government Books?]Can We Remove the "?" Now?
CNN/Inside Politics ^ | August 9, 2002 | Robert Novak

Posted on 11/10/2002 6:32:02 AM PST by Arthur Wildfire! March

Edited on 04/29/2004 2:01:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: M. Peach
I believe that you are correct here. Throughout the Clinton era I heard businessmen talk about the government numbers being more dishonest than ususal just to make Clinton look good but of course the media would never expose such things about their boy. I didn't save them but I think I read one or two reports, in the era, buried in the business section stating something to that effect also.
21 posted on 11/10/2002 8:26:20 AM PST by u-89
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Maybe the President ought to set up a cabinet-level position just dedicated to uncovering all of the Clinton crimes and bringing him and all his collaborators to justice. Either way, if Dubya doesn't do it, the Good Lord will.
22 posted on 11/10/2002 8:47:07 AM PST by Slyfox
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To: stickywillie
I am not an economist nor do I play one on the internet but it seems that our socialist style government, heavy taxes and regulations caught up with us about 10 -12 years ago. I mean here that people were being strangled by government and the economy was suffering from it. Credit cards used to be a hard thing to get, suddenly everybody had credit cards and the companies couldn't give out more and upgrade the existing accounts fast enough. The Fed kept lowering interest rates and America went on a spending spree. On top of this there was a genuine tech revolution with new inventions and applications which helped the economy tremendously.

Much of the stock growth in the last years did not reflect business earnings nor potential. It was all speculation chasing price movement - everyone wanting to jump onto any company whose stocks moved upward thus a rush begat a greater rush and stock value inflated far and above reality.

Speaking of Slick Willie going after Microsoft and starting the downturn I heard - can't back this up but heard that the government intentionally caused the stockcrash because too many people were dropping out of the workforce or retiring early because they were making so much in the market. This starved Social Security tax revenue to such a degree that the government decided it had to sink a lot of this fortune and force people back into the work force just so they could tax them again. I would like to hear some people around here, more informed economically that I say what they think about that.

23 posted on 11/10/2002 8:50:03 AM PST by u-89
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To: Tijeras_Slim
And what do you think?
24 posted on 11/10/2002 8:50:04 AM PST by freekitty
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To: thedugal
"I need to be exercised"
Do you mean circumcised or exOrcised?
25 posted on 11/10/2002 8:54:30 AM PST by americanbychoice
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
"Clinton Has A Pathological Inability To Distinguish Fact From Fiction".This was written by the outgoing burea-chief of The Sunday Times of London in September of 1993.After 15-years in Washington D.C.,he was being rotated back to The Uk.This was in his closing column.The British REALLY DO KNOW THE LANGUAGE!!
26 posted on 11/10/2002 8:59:41 AM PST by bandleader
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To: M. Peach
What was it that he said to Juanita Broaddrick as he left her in shock and bleeding?Wasn't it something like"You'd Better Put Some Ice On That"??My blood BOILS when I think of all The SHEEPLE who continue to support this PIG!!!!!!!!!!!
27 posted on 11/10/2002 9:03:35 AM PST by bandleader
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
Clinton is a natural born liar.

It was "the economy stupid" that kept his miserable naked butt with Monica in the oval office.

That was his only saving factor, and of course he would do all he could do to protect it by simply cookin' the books.

It's too darn bad though that the American people were innocents caught up in his perfidious scheme. We are indeed paying a very heavy price for the pleasure, no, the displeasure of his disgraceful 8 year occupancy in the White House.

28 posted on 11/10/2002 9:03:36 AM PST by harpo11
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To: stickywillie
You are right when you assert that prosperity in the 90's was driven by technology.You failed to mention what made that technology explosion possible!It took a great deal of investment and capital-formation and this was made possible by Ronald Reagan's slashing of marginal tax-rates in the 1980's!!
29 posted on 11/10/2002 9:08:14 AM PST by bandleader
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To: thedugal
You mean "Exorcised"!!!A Catholic Priest Can Handle It!!!!
30 posted on 11/10/2002 9:22:14 AM PST by bandleader
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
It doesn't. The Bureau of Economic Analysis releases corporate profit information with a lag of one quarter, sometimes a quarter and a half. Projections based on productivity data are consistently off, high. Projections by Wall Street analysts are consistently off even more, higher, and are continually revised downward as a date approaches. Thus, 3 years out Wall Street regularly forecasts 10-15% profit growth for the whole market. The actual results haven't been anywhere near those projections for 5 years now.

According to BEA figures, after tax corporate profits peaked in 1997. That is right Virginia, back before the Asia crisis - remember that one? When the Dow briefly broke down to around 7700, before snapping back over 9000 after the Fed rate cuts following the blow-up of Capital Management? That was the time real underlying business performance peaked. That is when the smart money got out.

The rate of after tax corporate profits in 1997 was $555 billion. Today is it $444 billion. In nominal terms, corporate profits have fallen by 1/5th since the Asia crisis. Meanwhile, the economy has continued to expand, up one quarter in nominal terms. The percent of GDP going to after tax corporate profits has consequently fallen from 6.7% to 4.3%.

The fall in profits after 1997 was not "monotonic". 2000 was better than the other years, with $523 billion turned in then, almost regaining the 1997 profits peak but not quite. The rebound from the 1998 low of $482 billion was presented as "renewed growth" by Wall Street analysts cheering on the last speculative blow off in the market. In 2001, profits fell to $471 billion, below the 1998 level. The bottom was in the last quarter of 2001, at an annual rate of $429 billion. We are up only marginally above that floor right now.

Corporate profits now are running at about the same rate as in Clinton's first term, if you average the rising trend back then. The stock market is twice as high. Back then, price to earnings was half what it is now with profits rising strongly, now it is much higher with profits down to flat.

More broadly viewed, a steady string of strong profit growth stretches from 1982 to 1997, with a slowdown in 1986. Corporate profits increased fourfold over that 15 year period, or a 10% annual rate (nominal). An additional tailwind came from falling interest rates and expansion of the initially low market multiple, established during the double digit inflation period of the late 70s.

From 1997 to 2000, the stock market climbed on hype, not underlying real performance. People came to expect double digit profit growth and 15% stock price growth. But profits cannot in the long run rise significantly faster than the overall economy, which rises only around 6% per year. And stock prices cannot in the long run outrun corporate profits. The period of disconnect was about 2 years, and allowed the market to rise 1/3 to 1/2, even while profits fell 1/5. That mismatch then resulted in the bursting bubble of late 2000 and 2001.

There have certainly been government numbers coming out during that period that made it easier to believe the rosy projections coming out of Wall Street. Productivity numbers in particular were probably fudged. That mattered because it convinced some bulls that long term economic growth might shift to a higher gear permanently. Which, combined with low long term interest rates, suggested that extreme valuations for stocks might be sustainable.

But this was frankly a straw grasped at by bulls looking for any kind of spin. Government figures showing that profits had peaked were readily available. Wall Street took to following "let's pretend" numbers instead, with numerous costs stripped out by accounting games or ignored even though reported, as supposedly "non-recurring". They were thus able to continue predicting double digit growth in their make believe numbers, even as the real ones flattened.

When profits actually fell, however, and clearly were not coming back immediately, companies that had relied on rising earnings defaulted on tens of billions in debts. Real earnings to service those debts had not appeared. Unable to throw more borrowed money at the problem, investment rates fell, and sent the initial credit shock up the line to suppliers to the most egregious overinvesting borrowers (notably telecoms and internet). As tech spending fell, the darlings of the bubble boosters were smashed, with 90-95% falls common.

Certainly some misleading government figures contributed to the whole debacle. But there was and is head-in-sand bullishness to share. Investors believed every sort of too good to be true hype and did not do their homework. Wall Street lied outright sometimes, and more often simply shoveled out the BS being fed to them by corporate insiders. Corporate insiders played every sort of accounting game to boost their stocks, and investors cheered, calling it "maximizing shareholder value". Everybody was going to get rich piling into the same 20 tech stocks, which no one would ever sell.

The fallacy of composition was out in full force as a result. In the long run, investors as a group can only receive money that companies actually earn. Everything else they just pay to one another. And in the long run, what companies actually earn is regulated by the pace of expansion of the overall economy, because the share of GDP going to corporate profits cannot expand forever. The overall economy, in turn, grows around 6% nominal, 1/2 to 1/3 of that being mere inflation.

One can therefore predict with considerable reliability that very long run returns from owning stocks will be about the level of the dividend yield on stocks, plus 6%. In the past, stocks have returned 10% because dividend yields were around 4%. Now dividend yields are 1.5% to 2%, and consequently there is no way stocks can return double digit amounts consistently, from present levels, in the medium term future. It is extremely doubtful that any of this has yet sunk for the mutual fund bulls of the late 1990s.

The primary support for the market at present is the very low level of long term interest rates. That is somewhat misleading, however, because rates are only low for the highest credit quality loans. Corporate spreads are extremely high, due in large part to high rates of default on the easy credit spewed out during the late 90s bull period.

As the economy recovers, corporate profits are likely to resume moderate growth, and to reach the 1997 level once again perhaps 3-5 years from now. The same recovery is likely to increase credit quality and gradually reduce the present wide spread on medium quality corporates. Medium quality corporates are at least as attractive at present prices as stocks are.

Over the past five years, bonds, real estate, and cash have been the places to be. A balanced portfolio would be perfectly sensible with present prices and risks. It may be a bit early, as dividend yields are still low and corporate profits have not recovered much from the late 2001 bottom. A gradual shift from the defensive posture of the past five years to 50-50 (stock vs. defensive) would be a perfectly sensible way to play the present situation.

Above all, the lesson is to do your own homework and not to believe interested hype peddled by almost everybody, not just the democrats or just the government.

31 posted on 11/10/2002 10:07:18 AM PST by JasonC
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March
As far as cooking the books is concerned, every administration for decades has done the same.

1. There have been no federal budget "surpluses;" every one spent more than came in. The difference is made up of the excess of FICA tax over benefits.

2. "Social Security" is the biggest Ponzi scheme that ever existed.

3. There are unrecorded liabilities in the trillions on FNMA and FMAC books that are not included in gov't figures.
32 posted on 11/10/2002 11:59:00 AM PST by jedi
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To: u-89
"the government intentionally caused the stockcrash because too many people were dropping out of the workforce or retiring early because they were making so much in the market. This starved Social Security tax revenue to such a degree that the government decided it had to sink a lot of this fortune and force people back into the work force just so they could tax them again."

OMG! I never thought of this before, but it certainly makes sense. I would like to believe that it is just the free economy balancing itself, but the powers that be certainly would benefit from such a scenario.
33 posted on 11/10/2002 12:03:52 PM PST by M. Peach
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To: JasonC
Thanks for your post. I tried to understand it, and think I got most of it.

One thing you point out is that people sometimes invest in stocks with an unrealistic attitude. I'm talking about middle-class people. A person might be a very good doctor, say, and unfortunately he might think he can therefore study up a lot and end up making some really savvy investments. (The smart doctor will pay someone to do this for him--someone who truly knows economics.) Suppose a university professor, or a doctor, or someone who simply makes a lot as a sales rep, decides they can be a success at "playing the market" b/c they were a success at their original profession. They will never have enough time (what with their "day" job) to do a really good job of learning how to invest.

Then there are people who have acquired a nice nest egg through, perhaps, a combination of saving and inheritance. These people might be even more naive.

What these people all need to do is to think of buying and selling stocks the way they would think of buying and selling anything else, IMO. Too few people do this. Any of the above people could probably figure out the approximate value of a car, and compare that to what they have "in" the car. If only they would do the same for their stocks.

If it has no real value, then unless it has some unique talismanic value to someone, you're probably not going to get someone to pay really good money for it--ever. This rule also goes for "collectibles." Remember Beanie Babies? While I am sure some people made some nice pocket change collecting and selling Beanie Babies, I have yet to see any Beanie Baby multi-millionaires.

I've heard over and over, various people saying (for example), "those McDonald's toys will be worth money someday." Sometimes they have looked a particular toy or other collectible up in one of those price guides. The fact is, regardless of what the price guides say, the thing is only worth as much as the top price you can ACTUALLY get another person to pay you for it.

34 posted on 11/10/2002 1:47:14 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: redbaiter
Yes, I guess we can count on leftists to take a "half-full" viewpoint (One man's loss is another man's gain) and turn it around into a pessimistic "half-empty" viewpoint (One man's gain is another man's loss.)

Their ways are so counter-intuitive, I can't figure out how so many leftists still survive generation after generation, to continue to plague us all.
35 posted on 11/10/2002 1:50:14 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: stickywillie
Yes, it seemed obvious to me that the Rapist and/or his minions simply looked at Gates & Co. and said, "There's a rich guy. Let's shake him down."

We have had presidents, I believe, who became corrupt after they'd become president. We've had presidents who were none too honest b/f they became president, and who just continued their dishonesty when they hit the big-time (presidency.) I think the Rapist is in a class by himself, though--he appears to be the very first person who actually went after the presidency solely b/c it looked to him like a really good device to use to make that "big score" that every con man dreams of.
36 posted on 11/10/2002 1:53:41 PM PST by Devil_Anse
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To: yoe
Thanks for your Post #12.
37 posted on 11/10/2002 4:18:03 PM PST by Travelgirl
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To: Travelgirl
Thank you! Use it!
38 posted on 11/10/2002 5:31:17 PM PST by yoe
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To: M. Peach
The sickest thing is that, no matter everything we know he has done, 33% of the voters in this nation will glorify him to their dying day.

They will obstruct the truth and position the opinions of future undecided's of their mindset that he was the second coming of FDR, who we all know was the greatest SOCIALIST who ever lived, thus keeping the great lie of the '90's alive long after SLICK'S dying day.

39 posted on 11/10/2002 6:26:31 PM PST by Wondervixen
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To: Wondervixen
"33% of the voters in this nation will glorify him to their dying day."

They say 33% of the folks opposed the American Revolution. It is sad, but seems to be a consistent slice of the population.

40 posted on 11/10/2002 7:22:57 PM PST by There's millions of'em
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