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Uncle Ali: Palestinian Moslem, Gnostic, Nazi, Mentor and Friend
astrologyforthepeople.com ^ | October 01, 2002 | Holger Werner

Posted on 11/17/2002 3:47:17 AM PST by Destro

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To: Destro
Want another link? Fine
I don't understand. Will a link somehow serve as an alibi for you to endorse the views of racists and historical revisionists? Please explain.
41 posted on 11/17/2002 6:03:21 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
Your using circular logic and it fails you. Showing a link to a beleif system does not mean an endorsement of that beleif. But it does show that their is an ideological kinship within the Islam and the Nazis based on Gnosticisim.
42 posted on 11/17/2002 6:04:20 AM PST by Destro
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To: Asclepius
What can I reasonably conclude other than that you are white-supremist, historical revisionist?

No, Destro's not any of the above. But based on your conduct, one can reasonably conclude a whole lot about you, none of which you'd like to read. Keep digging that hole deeper, you must be getting close to China.

43 posted on 11/17/2002 6:07:48 AM PST by xJones
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To: xJones
Honored by your defense of me, xJones. You did not have to but thank you. I just proved to myself why one should not argue with fools.
44 posted on 11/17/2002 6:10:48 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
"THIS WHAT THE MUSLIM ENEMY THINKS AND WE SHOULD KNOW IT"

You are absolutely correct Destro.

Hiding our heads in the sand to believe only what we want to believe and to teach only our own version of events leads to neither an understanding of our enemies nor the context of the world we share with them.

Like all "versions" of events, there are things to learn in making ourselves aware of the "version" described in this article.

Anyone too weak, too lazy, or too fearful to pick through the ashes of another's twisted logic will remain forever buried by their own chosen version of events and therefore blind to whatever truth is real. To be sure, the story told in this article, and the perverted interpretation of events is wrong in the end. But along the way are tidbits and details that will never be learned in any other format. Some of these little tidbits are made no less true by the mere fact that Dan Rather would never report them and they are certainly no less true by the fact that they make us uncomfortable. Other details are certainly outright lies, but there is a valuable lesson in knowing what lies your enemy holds to be true.

The toughest part is determining which is which. Some people would rather not invest the effort and they might prefer to be told what to believe.

Hang in there and ignore those who would rather we listen only to their own version of events.

45 posted on 11/17/2002 6:11:22 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Incorrigible
I find it interesting. I think it helps explain why Mein Kampf is a big seller in the Arab world.

Check out my link in #40.

46 posted on 11/17/2002 6:12:54 AM PST by Destro
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To: Destro
... But it does show that their is an ideological kinship within the Islam and the Nazis based on Gnosticisim ...
Hmmm. Once again I managed to scare you away from your stronger claim and back to your weaker claim, the claim of some vaue and nebulous link. (You must be very limber. Or does your neck hurt from all these sudden changes of position?)

Here is my point: the article you posted does not show this (whatever "this" happens to be at the moment, because your description of "this" keeps changing): it is pure fiction--fantasy, all of it, the fantasies of a foul and loathsome individual. To suggest otherwise is buy into the author's foul and loathsome claims. If you want to make such a case, find other, more historically verifiable, factual grounds.
47 posted on 11/17/2002 6:13:05 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
"Accepting a link between these groups or belief systems--as you claim--means accepting the author's claims on their face"

and to deny that there was a link is to believe a lie.

To educate yourself and to attempt to educate others is always an effort to be praised. Education on topics such as this will never make one comfortable.

On this topic, comfort comes only by hiding and pretending to believe a fable. Personally, I'd prefer to know what the enemy believes and what the small facts are which those beliefs are based on.

48 posted on 11/17/2002 6:15:14 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Asclepius
"or simply admit that it was your intention to post white-power-identity propaganda on FR in the guise of an anti-Muslim rant"

I think possibly you're being just a bit too defensive on this point.

This statement looks to me like a case of projecting.

49 posted on 11/17/2002 6:18:54 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
Thank you. I try and post from the enemies camp of late. The news we get is unreadable these days. The news does not even call al-Qaeda terrorists. It's like not calling Nazis evil butchers if WW2 was being fought now.

Americans voted in Republicans in record numbers because we have a war on we want to win, not a police action or a social problem that can be fixed with candy drops and third world hand outs.

We are facing an evil enemy with an evil belief system.

50 posted on 11/17/2002 6:18:56 AM PST by Destro
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To: Lloyd227
... and to deny that there was a link is to believe a lie ...
I deny no links. In fact, I wrote precisely the opposite. What I deny is that the article Destro posted is evidence of one, or evidence of anything else, as it is but a string of detestable, racist, historical-revisionist lies etc.
51 posted on 11/17/2002 6:19:52 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Lloyd227
... I think possibly you're being just a bit too defensive on this point ...
Defensive? No. I have nothing to defend. The term you want is offensive, in this case. At the least scent of anti-semiticism, I generally assume full battle posture. If, when in my presence, you want to imply that the holocaust never happened, expect a fight.
52 posted on 11/17/2002 6:23:29 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Asclepius
"as it is but a string of detestable, racist, historical-revisionist lies etc."

Actually, I thought the article was an accounting of conversations told from a former Palestinian SS officer to his (then young) nephew.

The tone of the piece and the way it is told is from a purely personal experience, family history perspective and as such, all of the "facts" contained are subject to the personal perspective of both "Uncle Ali" and the the nephew who relates what was told years later.

This is nothing more than the recollections of how certain events were viewed from one man's perspective and being retold through old remembrances of his nephew.

Certainly this is not something any rational person would use to "revise" history and I think your overzealous attack is unwarranted.

53 posted on 11/17/2002 6:26:19 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
"At the least scent of anti-semiticism, I generally assume full battle posture"

Precisely.

While I understand your positions, I believe that this 'battle posture' gets in the way of honest and rational debate.

To be sure, anti-semitism is evil and unjust. The holocaust happened to be sure. But in defense of those positions, you assume an attack from every possible direction. Quite often, there is no attack and fail to recognize when you're are among friends.

Relax a little. Please.

54 posted on 11/17/2002 6:31:16 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Asclepius
Post #54 was intended for you. I clicked on the wrong "reply" link :-)

Cheers,
Lloyd

55 posted on 11/17/2002 6:33:08 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: Lloyd227
... This is nothing more than the recollections of how certain events were viewed from one man's perspective and being retold through old remembrances of his nephew ...
How is the genre of the discourse relevant? If it were the transcripts of scrawls on a mens room wall, would that change the substance of the claims made in the account? And would that change Destro's position with respect to those claims, given that he has admitted endorsing them? Answer: no, it wouldn't.

But here is the most important point: These are not recollections reported in Destro's article; they are simply lies--a recollection implies that there is something to recollect, only these events never happened because the Holocaust did happen, because what you call "recollections" recollect the haolocaust never happening, and for you to suggest that the author is "recollecting" anything is to buy into the author's point of view, and reveal yourself as a racist, historical revionist etc.
56 posted on 11/17/2002 6:34:04 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Lloyd227
You'll have to repost. My imam issued a fatwa that forbids me to scroll up.
57 posted on 11/17/2002 6:35:22 AM PST by Asclepius
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To: Lloyd227; Destro
Read his homepage.

"Guerilla dialectician. Neo-grrr-nostic. Student of the corpus Hermeticum, the Latin Asclepius, and the Italian esoteric tradition (Bruno, Vico, Evola et al). Relentless pursuer of the Great Work, the ars regia.

Teacher of composition, professional writing, argument, text analysis, qualitative modes of inquiry.

Studier and researcher of the written word, text and conditions of textuality, visible language, symbols, symbol systems, symbolic processes, the glyph, the trace, the sign.

Sometimes anarchist. Sometimes crypto-monarchist. Stubborn reactionary. Radical traditionalist. Believer in human finitude and the limits of human consciousness: we are not the rational creatures we believe that we are. Believer in our dependence on culture, nation, and institution. Believer in the irreducible complexities of social reality, the mess and muddle of the human condition. Conservative in the sense that Spengler, Wittgenstein, Toynbee, Burke, D'Annunzio, Feyerabend, Evola et al are conservatives."

58 posted on 11/17/2002 6:36:14 AM PST by xJones
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To: Asclepius
"for you to suggest that the author is "recollecting" anything is to buy into the author's point of view, and reveal yourself as a racist, historical revionist etc."

Excuse me?

Did you just call ME a racist based on the fact that I can read the ramblings of another without becoming furious at his misguided and incorrect beliefs?

Like I said previously, I think you need to relax a little. With an attitude like that, you certainly WILL see enemies under every rock.

59 posted on 11/17/2002 6:39:33 AM PST by Lloyd227
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To: xJones; Lloyd227
Gnostics are into the concept that extremes are to be embraced. There is no evil nor good beyond how it affects you. For example of this Gnostic dualisim: Nationalist AND Socialist and like Islam Religion on one hand And Secular system on the other.
60 posted on 11/17/2002 6:42:44 AM PST by Destro
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