Turn me loose, set me free

boulderweekly ^ | Oct-Nov 2002 | Wayne Laugesen

[watcher1]

"Herding cats, know wha'm sayin'?"


I'm sure there will be some "cat herding".
You can't get any large group of people to
agree on all the details of anything.
I don't think there is a problem with electing Libertarian officials
Remember Congressman Ron Paul ( R-Texas) is in fact a Libertarian.
Ron Paul has a voting record most FReepers agree with big time.
How would you like to have 2 Senators like him and a Governor too?.
How would you like to see that Governor make 10th Amendment challenges to
unconstitutional laws?
How would you like to see him win those cases in front of the SCOUS?
How would like your freedom back?
How would you like your Country back?
If you want perfection you won't find it in the FSP
If you want freedom you will.

[archy]

There are two examples I can think of offhand where such an inherently minority party did succeed in either becoming a majority party temporarily or exerting its will over the majority despite maintaining a minority status...

Another to consider: the Socialists of David Ben-Gurion during the earliest days of Israel's independence, 1947-48.

Ben-Gurion had the assistance of the previous British administration, of course, for whom he was an informant, sending many of his Irgun and IZL political adversaries to the British gallows, and there was the little matter of the deaths of those killed aboard the arms ship Altalena trying to provide arms for the defence of the new state, instead of just Ben-Gurion's faction, but most Israelis were so overjoyed that the miricle had come to pass that they were willing to forgive their first Prime Minister a little blood on his hands.

-archy-/-

[watcher1]

bump

[archy]

Herdin' cat's, know wha'm sayin?

Oh yeah, sho' 'nuff. We have the technology:

[archy]

How would you like your country back?
If you want perfection you won't find it in the FSP
If you want freedom you will.

Well, no guarantees. But a chance, anyway, a chance.

[Billthedrill]

An excellent example, but I don't see its applicability unless the current politicians in that state are to be betrayed, one at a time, herded into captivity, and shot...I mean, there's something about that that strikes me as potentially objectionable...captivity, then shot...something wrong here, something...shot...let me think, stood up against the wall and shot...well, of course! It's a potential waste of valuable ammunition!

[u-89]

all of South America begins to show up

Don't laugh. From what I read in a think tank paper once (don't remember which one so don't ask) that the game plan for the future is to have one giant hemispheric bloc under one government. Starting off with a N.American Union by merging Canada, the US and Mexico then adding southern nations as they can be stabilized. Europe would also be one block, Africa another (if anything could ever be done with that mess) and then an Asian block. The mid-east oil could be shared (but controled by us). The whole world ordered nice and neatly by regions.

This may seem an undoable dream but remember that impracticality and past failures never detered intellectual types, communism being an example. Also never underestimate the effects of a university paper. Kissenger used to be a Harvard proffessor writing papers, Nelson Rockefeller was impressed and Kissenger's been forming policy in the real world ever since.

[u-89]

It would be the only spot of True America in the world.

Your sarcasm is noted but that would indeed be the case if the project is successful. Sad case that in all 50 states there is not one that resembles the old republic. BTW what are you doing to restore liberty? (assuming you see the need) I hope it's more than vote GOP every two years.

[Texasforever]

BTW what are you doing to restore liberty?

I am waiting to see the FSP miracle myself. I want to see what a full blown "free" state will look like. I support the project 100% and encourage all FR libertarians to sign up and show the rest of us what it means to be pioneers for FREEDOM!

[MissAmericanPie]

Let me quote Bush for you. "I want to see one free trade zone, from Canada to the tip of South America". If you look at their ideas of "free trade" there are no borders, anyone from Chile can bring their merchandise here to sell, no borders, no hassels, the only problem being, that once these people get here they don't leave. Both parties evidently have the same agenda.

Where does all this Free Trade leave our Constitution and sovereignty? Non-existant, that's where. Would a real American even consider this? I don't think so.

[SSN558]

It is not a new concept. The hippies and liberals did the same thing to CA, and turned it into liberal versus conservative Zimbabwee. The blacks are moving back South. Fed up white conservatives are moving to the North West out of CA. The balkanization of the U.S. is a thirty year trend that is accelerating, and brought on by the politics of class warfare, envy, gerrymandering, and divsiveness.

[u-89]

I think it's immoral and insane to kill babies

Not all libertarians are pro-choice. I have found many to be for life. It all comes down to one's understanding of life. If one believes that a fetus is not life but merely part of the woman's body then choice is logical as it would be no more anyone else's business than if you had a wart removed. However if one believes a fetus is a human life then the law requires the protection of life. Also many libertarians are against Roe v. Wade because they do not believe it good constitutional law. It should be a state matter. Before '73 some states had abortion, others outlawed it. The people legislated according to their understanding of human life. A libertarian state could go either way. The key to the abortion issue is changing people's minds and hearts.

A breif aside; it is very libertarian to be responsible for ones actions. Abortion is an quick and easy out for a 18+ year burden resulting from irresponsible behavior.

[watcher1]

The balkanization of the U.S. is a thirty year trend that is accelerating, and brought on by the politics of class warfare, envy, gerrymandering, and divsiveness.

I agree.
So have you signed up yet?

[u-89]

From you last post I am not sure where you stand in support of one party or another so will just use this as an excuse to state some observations. Borders and trade issues are two things some conservatives have against libertarians. I am not a party member and do not know the party platform on these issues but I know I have read various schools of thought by libertarians.

No borders, free movements of people. Adherents to that thought line are futuristic one worlders who do not believe in the concept of nationhood (Neither does Clinton or Strobe Talbot but they don't believe in liberty either). I have not seen official libertarian policy anywhere along that line. Some argue that there should be borders but people should be free to move about as they please. They also argue that a libertarian country would not be a welfare state and the mass amount of leaches we now suffer would then not be an issue. Valid point but the fact is we are a welfare state and the leaches vote democrat so supporting unregulated immagration is self defeating for libertarians and therefore illogical. There are libertarians who believe in nationhood and defense is one of the few legitimate functions of the Fed and secure borders is intregal to defense. These people also believe that a nation has the right to regulate who comes in and in what numbers. Being an American is not a basic human right ordained by God.

Trade: I am squishy on this one. Liberty means we should be free to do business with whom we please but "free trade" as delivered by the 2 parties is anything but that and seems to be more of a racket designed to benefit special interests. From a security standpoint if our national defense supplies are mostly made overseas we are not secure however if we didn't try to be run the world we would not have a need to be so worried. I like the concept of free trade with all and entangling alliances with none. Good will to all - and a strong defense. Early on our nation had no income tax and tariffs on imports made for a lot of the revenue. But all this is not now the case and who cares what I think.

[tubebender]

I'll send money after you take all your folk with you from Calif.

[MissAmericanPie]

All that sounds real good, no welfare no reason to stay, no chance of US citizenship. Just Free Trade, human unity, rainbows and swallows winging their way to heavens door.

That is not the reality though, now is it. They leave out the one big equation, human nature, racism, greed, envy, lust for power, fighting for resources, for their cut, and those coming up empty will war. Our constutution and rights entangled in the rights of others who do not have our best interest at heart. And it will matter little to them how great our army, terrorism fears no army, nor any power. Terrorism is more of an individual thing. "Let one man say, I am an army". Ah, well, interesting times and all that.

[MissAmericanPie]

BTW I'm an independent conservative. Neither party suits me at the moment.

[Concentrate]

Cool! But at the same time, boot out all illegal immigrants by state decree. Then, I'll move there.

[fone]

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