Europe's nations fading to the left

The Washington Times ^ | December 5, 2002 | Paul Craig Roberts

[Tailgunner Joe]

Europe as we have known it is disappearing. Soon there will be no France, no Germany, no Italy, no Austria, no Spain, no Denmark, no Belgium, no Netherlands, no Greece, no Ireland, no Great Britain. Every country will be gone. In their place will be the European Union.

[foreverfree]

bump from the right

[Tench_Coxe]

"The United states was built from the bottom up, by the consent of the people. Europe is being built from the top down, on a very shaky foundation."

Which is why, at some point, resistance will be put down by force and coercion.

[cornelis]

Anybody here read about the Velvet revolution? Is Poland not a figure?

[speekinout]

Europe has this multicentury history of almost constant war except for the last 57 years under American domination.

This is true. Americans have always been a varied group of people who share similar values, but have not much background in common. Europeans typically care more about their shared background than their current values.
I think that's one of the reasons that the US has such bad press in other countries. Americans just can't understand why ethnic background matters, but the growing number of illegal immigrants is sure changing that.

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[Pyrion]

"Soon there will be no France, no Germany, no Italy, no Austria, no Spain, no Denmark, no Belgium, no Netherlands, no Greece, no Ireland, no Great Britain."

And they won't be missed. Except for the last two. :)

[Prodigal Son]

London, Manchester, Stockholm, Hamburg, Amsterdam, Marseilles, Barcelona.

Well. Here's this link showing Muslim population breakdown by country- http://www.iiie.net/Intl/PopStats.html. Now this is put out by "The Institute of Islamic Information and Education", so I would assume if anything these figures are "optimistic" but let's assume for a moment they're fact.

London has a population of over 7 million. According to the link there are 1.5 million Muslims in the entire UK. Even if they were all in London (which they're not) they would only amount to about 20% of London's population.

Also according to this link: http://populations.com/Country.asp?ID=197&CityID=8046- There are Anglican 27 million, Roman Catholic 9 million, Muslim 1million, Presbyterian 800,000, Methodist 760,000, Sikh 400,000, Hindu 350,000, Jewish 300,000 in the United Kingdom. So we're looking at about 37.5 million various Christian faith people compared to the One million Muslims.

The number of Muslims in France is a bit cloudier. I've come across various claims. The original link I provided by the Muslim Institute... cites the figure of 1.7 million. Some assorted "scare monger" type sites cited figures as high as 8- 10 million. The following link cites a breakdown of where the Muslims in France come from so let's go with that- source- http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/fp/cusf/analysis/islam.htm#foot%201- it cites 4.1 million Muslims in France or I believe about 10% (or less) of the population of France.

The following link- http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/world/A0858211.html cites Roman Catholicism as being the number one religion in France with 80% of the population claiming to be Catholic. But I believe in Marseilles the Muslim population is very large- perhaps as large as 50%. I've seen figures that show that certain teenage- young adult demographics in Marseilles are 50% Muslim.

Barcelona. Spain is also heavily Catholic. This link here http://www.bcn.es/estadistica/angles/dades/anu98/i0201078.htm shows population by nationality in Barcelona. It looks to me like there are more Germans, French, Italians etc than Muslims in Barcelona's 1.5 million population.

Hamburg's population is about 1.7 million, 150,000- 200,000 of which are Muslim.

Amsterdam. Several sources I read stated that the Muslim population in the Netherlands' major cities was roughly equal to the native born Dutch population. You could probably get some better info from knighthawk if you feel like giving him a ping.

? I mean the number of believing, abiding, mosque-going Muslims outnumber the number of Church-going Christian believers.

I don't think this is a good criterion to be judging whether or not a city is Muslim or not. I mean, just because you're not Christian doesn't mean you're Muslim. I'm not a Christian but I'm certainly not to be found praying to Allah. There are Hindus, atheists, people who believe in God but who reject Christianity etc etc. At any rate- the picture is nowhere near as bleak as you speculate but the picture is worrying. Something must be done to stem Muslim immigration in Europe soon or in the next decade or so we might actually see your description of "Muslim cities".

[JohnnyRidden]

Very interesting facts. I bet that the numbers are lower since the info is from a Islamic site. No matter how many there truely are in Europe, they are still a threat to western civilization.

[Clemenza]

Middle and Upper class Latin Americans tend to assimilate as well, as most of European ancestry anyway. Jews held out for a long time, now even they are intermarrying 55-60% of the time. Some ethnic groups, such as Hindu Indians, have not yet fully assimilated through intermarriage, but have generally adapted themselves fairly well.

None of this changes the fact that most immigrants I meet from Asia and Eastern Europe are to the left of the average American...

[Clemenza]

Eh..hem... The heads of government (Berlusconi and Aznar) of Italy and Spain are pro-American. Besides, without Italy alone, Europe would lose 70% of its beautiful women and 100% of its best food and wine.

If we lost Ireland, the worst that would happen would be no Guinness. Wait a second, THAT WOULD BE A TRAGEDY!!!

[Badger1]

A single currency and the elimination of trade barriers was a great idea for Europe. If the EU had stuck to these two issues, it would have been a great benefit to Europe. What has happened in Europe however shows just how badly a good idea can be screwed up when government bureaucrats are involved.

[Demidog]

Europe's nations fading to the left

Earth to the Author: Europe invented the "left" and has never strayed from that path since socialism became "legitimate."

[Demidog]

Europe has this multicentury history of almost constant war except for the last 57 years under American domination.

LOL. America has been at war without a break since 1941. Since 1941, the US has had military operations somewhere in the world.

[texasbluebell]

"Something's rotten in the state of Denmark"...and England, and France, and Germany and...

[Pitchfork]

This is nonsense. It's based on the false premise that there was one French, German, Italian, Spanish (etc.) culture that was the sacred trust of the national government. Anyone who has ever been to Europe knows that within each of these 'nations' are AT LEAST 5 or 6 sub-groups who have managed to maintain distinct identities notwithstanding the presence of a homogenizing national bureacracy.
The EU is isn't a threat to European civic or political culture and the shift to the left will eventually be corrected by a shift to the right. Yes, even in Europe political trends are cyclical.

[truth_seeker]

"The phenomena you cite mostly applies to immigrants from Latin America, and especially Mexicans in the southwest. "

Unlike you, I live in the Southwest. Immigrants from Latin America generally assimilate, in following generations.

I have many friends who are second and later generations, and they are Americans first, ethnic heretige second. Just exactly like the descendants other immigrant groups.

I will concede that the large illegal immigrant population, appears to not assimilate. But I believe you are judging from the first generation.

My 2 cents worth.

[Imal]

Adam Weishaupt must be chuckling in his grave.

[John Lenin]

The United states was built from the bottom up, by the consent of the people. Europe is being built from the top down, on a very shaky foundation.

Good point, thats why they are using bread and circus's for the time being , whent they crack down on all the liberalism thats when the sheeple wake up and realize they just lost their liberty.

[BlueLancer]

Does this mean that they will all lose their votes in the UN and there will be just one EU vote ...

... or does this mean that each of our 50 states will be given seats in the UN (and in the security council)?