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California Bishop to Gov: Oppose Abortion or No Communion (New Title)
The Sacramento Bee ^ | 23 Jan 03 | Pamela Martineau

Posted on 01/24/2003 2:54:43 PM PST by Mr. Silverback

Edited on 04/12/2004 5:47:42 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Sacramento, CA -- Sacramento Bishop William K. Weigand, leader of 500,000 Catholics in Northern California, called on Gov. Gray Davis on Wednesday to renounce his support of abortion or stop taking Holy Communion.

Speaking at a morning Mass on the 30th anniversary of the landmark U.S. Supreme Court decision that legalized abortion, Weigand told congregants at the Cathedral of the Blessed Sacrament that Davis should refrain from taking communion while he continues to support abortion.


(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: California
KEYWORDS: grayoutshutout; woohoo
Never mess with...

THE BISHOP!!

Hope this starts a trend...BTW, original article title was "Bishop challenges Davis on abortion."

1 posted on 01/24/2003 2:54:43 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
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To: 2nd amendment mama; A2J; aposiopetic; attagirl; axel f; Balto_Boy; bulldogs; Charlie OK; ...
ProLife Ping!

If anyone wants on or off my ProLife Ping List, please notify me here or by freepmail.

2 posted on 01/24/2003 2:56:28 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
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To: Mr. Silverback
About time a bishop stood up to some of these people that claim to be Catholic and yet do not follow the Church's teachings.

I am not a Catholic, but appreciate the stand taken by this bishop. If more bishops did, we would have fewer abortions, at least among Catholics.
3 posted on 01/24/2003 3:01:07 PM PST by FR_addict
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To: Mr. Silverback
Lopez criticized the bishop for "telling the faithful how to practice their faith."

Uhh ... what? Last time I checked, that was the primary job description for a bishop!

4 posted on 01/24/2003 3:04:15 PM PST by RonF
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To: Mr. Silverback
The "E" word comes to mind.
5 posted on 01/24/2003 3:07:31 PM PST by Overtaxed (HHD)
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To: Mr. Silverback
I'm not Catholic, and I'm pro-choice, but I certainly see the logic in what this bishop is doing. If the Catholic Church sees abortion as a mortal sin, then it's got a right to ask Catholic politicians to oppose abortion. Seems to me the bishop has every right, and even a duty, to condemn any pro-choice Catholic politician and to deny them the sacrament.

Reminds me of when Kennedy was elected. He was the first (and so far only, I think) Catholic to be elected President, and he had to tell people that he would a President who was Catholic, not a Catholic President.

What you may well see is that this will hinder Catholics from holding political office, at least at levels where abortion legislation is influenced and in areas where the majority is pro-choice.
6 posted on 01/24/2003 3:10:20 PM PST by RonF
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To: Mr. Silverback
Lopez said that Weigand's comments could alienate members of the Catholic Church who support abortion.

Oh darn.

"There are a lot of Catholics who are pro-choice. Does the bishop want all Catholics to stop receiving Holy Communion?" asked Lopez. "Who's going to be left in church?"

Uh, people who believe in one of the most central teachings of the Church?

7 posted on 01/24/2003 3:10:20 PM PST by Numbers Guy
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To: Mr. Silverback
Outstanding! Now is the other Bishops would just stand up to Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle, Leahy, Biden, et al.
8 posted on 01/24/2003 3:15:13 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Mr. Silverback
Outstanding! Now is the other Bishops would just stand up to Kennedy, Kerry, Daschle, Leahy, Biden, et al.
9 posted on 01/24/2003 3:16:19 PM PST by afraidfortherepublic
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To: Mr. Silverback
Shocking - a U.S. Bishop who is actually a Catholic.....
10 posted on 01/24/2003 3:22:57 PM PST by Castlebar
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To: RonF
What you may well see is that this will hinder Catholics from holding political office

Political power is not an end in itself, unless your name is Clinton. It is a means to an end, that of building a just and free society. If people would rather elect someone who pledges himself to the service of a vicious, bloodthirsty, Satanic lie, which is what abortion is, then they will get a vicious, bloodthirsty, Satanic society ... because they asked for it.

Abolitionists had a hard time winning elections in the pre-Civil War South. That didn't make them wrong.

11 posted on 01/24/2003 3:27:23 PM PST by Campion
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: Campion
I didn't say it was wrong, I was just pointing out the result.

As far as political power being an end in itself; it's quite interesting how many politicans pledge themselves to term limits, and then when that limit comes up decide that the Republic can't get along without them.
13 posted on 01/24/2003 3:38:25 PM PST by RonF
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To: Go Dub Go
I wonder if the priests who were molesting children still receive communion, or has the church called for them to stop receiving it as well?

Any half-decent Catholic catechism will tell you that such acts are gravely sinful, which automatically implies that one who commits them and is unrepentant cannot receive Communion. No special "call" should be necessary to reiterate a basic point of doctrine that every Catholic should have learned as a child, and one of which no priest can possibly be ignorant.

14 posted on 01/24/2003 3:44:03 PM PST by Campion
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To: RonF
"then it's got a right to ask Catholic politicians to oppose abortion"

If Catholic politicians followed the rulings of the Catholic church in their legislative decisions, then what happens to the church-state issue? How is this much different from a theocracy?

The church believes in tithing - giving 10%. Wait, this might be a good thing for politicians to adopt!

15 posted on 01/24/2003 4:02:45 PM PST by robertpaulsen
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To: RonF
What you may well see is that this will hinder Catholics from holding political office

Catholics will not support abortion in order to gain political office .
Politicians who CALL themselves Catholics may but they will be told point blank to quit calling themselves Catholic
16 posted on 01/24/2003 4:08:50 PM PST by uncbob
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To: Mr. Silverback
Bravo. For too long the Cathedral in Sacramento has catered to people like Gray Davis. Bishop Weigand is acting as a shepherd should.
17 posted on 01/24/2003 4:09:28 PM PST by Cicero
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To: Mr. Silverback
...asked Lopez. "Who's going to be left in church?"

Gee, I don't know. Maybe Christians?

18 posted on 01/24/2003 4:18:34 PM PST by wcbtinman
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To: Mr. Silverback
Gray-out Davis sounds like one of those who say they are Catholic are not, but do lie.
19 posted on 01/24/2003 4:45:32 PM PST by Slyfox
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To: Numbers Guy
"There are a lot of Catholics who are pro-choice. Does the bishop want all Catholics to stop receiving Holy Communion?" asked Lopez. "Who's going to be left in church?"

The faithful.

20 posted on 01/24/2003 4:47:38 PM PST by capitan_refugio
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To: robertpaulsen
It has nothing to do with a theocracy.

Catholics who are public advocates for murder are simply no longer Catholics.

Simple & long overdue.
21 posted on 01/24/2003 4:52:06 PM PST by Republic If You Can Keep It
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To: Mr. Silverback
Catholics can not even take care of their own bishops and priests, who are famous for molesting little boys, so they need to offer no advice to anyone, for they are not credible.
22 posted on 01/24/2003 4:57:28 PM PST by tessalu
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To: Mr. Silverback; Admin Moderator
The search function is our friend.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/828093/posts

23 posted on 01/24/2003 4:59:47 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: RonF
What you may well see is that this will hinder Catholics from holding political office, at least at levels where abortion legislation is influenced and in areas where the majority is pro-choice.

Good. It means no more hypocrites like Mario Cuomo and George Pataki in my state.

24 posted on 01/24/2003 5:31:28 PM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Finally, a Bishop with testicular fortitude who uses them in the right way!
25 posted on 01/24/2003 5:32:02 PM PST by Henchman
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To: tessalu
Mr Silverschwanse - all religions have the same problem and in a similar proportion. The problem here is that the Church has a heirarchy that malfunctioned. Many other religions do not have the same type of heirarchy. Don't confuse your rifle and your gun.
26 posted on 01/24/2003 5:34:28 PM PST by Henchman
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To: tessalu; Coleus
Wahtever you may think of the homosexual sinners within the clergy, you must understand that the Bishop is merely holding his CO-RELIGIONISTS to the fire. He IS NOT telling Jewish, Protestant, Muslim or Atheists to the fire. If Gray Davis, Mario Cuomo, George Pataki, Joe Biden, et. al. want to go on advocating infanticide, they can do so, as long as they STOP CALLING THEMSELVES "CATHOLIC."

Tend your own garden before you start making snide remarks.

27 posted on 01/24/2003 5:36:02 PM PST by Clemenza (East side, West side, all around the town. Tripping the light fantastic on the sidewalks of New York)
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To: Clemenza; tessalu
Great post. I can only add this: How exactly does the evil of Bernard Law and a few other moral morons preclude Wiegand from speaking out against baby-killing hypocrites? It's like saying the Chancellor of Germany can't say carjacking is wrong because Hitler was Chancellor. It's a big fat non sequitor.
28 posted on 01/24/2003 5:54:17 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
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To: Henchman
Mr Silverschwanse - all religions have the same problem and in a similar proportion. The problem here is that the Church has a heirarchy that malfunctioned. Many other religions do not have the same type of heirarchy. Don't confuse your rifle and your gun.

Huh? Was that one addressed to me?

29 posted on 01/24/2003 5:57:30 PM PST by Mr. Silverback
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To: capitan_refugio
BTTT
30 posted on 01/24/2003 5:59:28 PM PST by oldtimer
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To: Go Dub Go
If the priests claim that there is nothing wrong with molesting children, or if they promote the molestation of children (which is Grey's position vis-a-vis abortion) then I am certain they would be denied communion.
31 posted on 01/24/2003 6:07:43 PM PST by GilesB
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To: Mr. Silverback
So you can be a Grey Davis in one diocese and receive communion and in another diocese you cannot. This is a first insofar as I know.

What is wrong with this picture? Ted Kennedy can receive communion on the east coast and . . .

How on earth can you have a huge church where you can do some bad things and still receive communion in some places and not in others?

This should be implemented from the top down imo.

32 posted on 01/24/2003 6:13:30 PM PST by Aliska
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To: Mr. Silverback
Go Bishop Weigand Go!

Excommunication is the only way to get other catholics to realise that they shouldn't vote for 'pretend' catholics.

The other pretend catholics in the US Capital Building should be excomm'd as well.
33 posted on 01/24/2003 7:31:17 PM PST by uncbuck (Stupid people piss me off.)
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To: AKA Elena; american colleen; sandyeggo; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; Notwithstanding; Askel5; ...
Ping.
34 posted on 01/24/2003 7:37:59 PM PST by Siobhan (+ Kyrie eleison +)
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To: uncbob
Catholics who oppose abortion--people of any ilk who oppose abortion--will have a hard time running on the Democratic ticket. That's a problem, because many Catholics have issues with the Republicans on a broadranger of issues. Abortion has become a far more important issue to the Democratic Party than to the Republican. Here in Texas, which is pretty pro-life, all the major Democratic candidates felt compelled to take a pro-abortion stance even though it cost them lots of votes. It was the price they had to pay to get DNC money.
35 posted on 01/24/2003 8:28:01 PM PST by RobbyS
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To: Siobhan
Praise the Lord! If only more of them would speak out.
36 posted on 01/24/2003 9:27:19 PM PST by tiki
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To: Clemenza; tessalu
He's probably a fallen-away Catholic or someone who doesn't like Catholics. And what Cardinal Law did in his Diocese has nothing to do in this diocese.

Kudos to the bishop for upholding the Catholic faith and for putting baby killers in their place!!!
37 posted on 01/24/2003 10:05:37 PM PST by Coleus (RU 486 Kills Babies)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Admin Moderator>>>

squealer.
38 posted on 01/24/2003 10:07:04 PM PST by Coleus (RU 486 Kills Babies)
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To: Coleus
?? No one is accusing you of doing anything wrong, Coleus. The moderator is able to tidy up the clutter of duplicate posts, if needed.
39 posted on 01/24/2003 10:18:58 PM PST by Cultural Jihad
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To: Mr. Silverback
A round of applause for the bishop...
40 posted on 01/25/2003 2:17:05 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
There are a lot of Catholics who are pro-choice. Does the bishop want all Catholics to stop receiving Holy Communion?" asked Lopez. "Who's going to be left in church?"

Stupid socialist, stay out of our religion.

41 posted on 01/25/2003 2:24:12 AM PST by Rome2000
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To: robertpaulsen
Tithing comparisons between the Catholic and the Mormon Church

Tithing is mandated by the LDS Church -- but is not mandated by the Catholic Church








The Catholic Church tells us tithing is voluntary ... perhaps about 1/40th of your wage ... or about 2.5 percent. And, then, this is according to your ability to pay. There is no commandment or "law."

In contrast, tithing IS a law and mandated commandment for the LDS, Mormon Church member. He must pay 10% of his GROSS income regardless of income level or ability to pay. Failure to pay this payment means denial of status, entrance to the Mormon Temple, a good celestial life, salvation, and other blessings.

The law of tithing is frequently enforced by frequent private interviews with your bishop and stake president (minister). You can't be issued a temple recommend unless you state that you pay an honest full tithing.

Unfortunately, in addition to this 10% tithing, LDS members donate "fast offerings" and many other donations. One of these, above and beyond the tithe, is the financing of your children on Mormon missions. This can be a devastating and crippling expense for low or mid-income families since missions are also mandated and commanded by the church. Families are expected to foot the hefty bill for these missions. Mormonism, then, is a very expensive religion to join.

There is no commanded tithing in the Catholic Religion. You are expected to pay a tithe of only what you can afford .... a much more realistic approach to tithing. Besides that, Catholic tithing donations go toward paying their ministers. (Mormon ministers receive no pay -- only the very top hierarchy receive pay -- some with fat salaries and perks)

The following article was written to the Catholic members to explain tithing in the Catholic Church:







Catholicism Straight Answers: Are We Required to Tithe?
By Fr. William Saunders HERALD Columnist


Although we may not have a rule of tithing, we do have the duty to support the needs of the Church, whether at the international, diocesan or parish level. Each of us should evaluate what we do "give back to God" through our support of the Church and charitable organization.

For example, we should ask, "Do I give to God each week at least what I spend on entertainment, such as movies? Do I give to God at least one hour's worth of my 40 hour pay check?"



Fr. Saunders is pastor of Queen of Apostles Church in Alexandria.





42 posted on 01/25/2003 2:31:15 AM PST by Rome2000
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To: robertpaulsen
If Catholic politicians followed the rulings of the Catholic church in their legislative decisions, then what happens to the church-state issue?

What 'church-state issue' ???

I'm an atheist, but I do fully support a Catholic or other religious person in voting within a legislative body based on their conviction and instruction from their clergy.

The only thing I would see as problematic is for the Pope to issue decrees from Rome being accepted as the secular authority of law.

I also see no problem with a Bishop running for political office or being appointed as a judge. If they are citizens of the United States, registered to vote and over 18, they have every right.

We get the Religious Left running for office (i.e. the gay religionists, the eco-fascist religionists, the Marxist religionists, etc.), so why not a Catholic nun or priest?

As a matter of secular argument, the societal practice of abortion is ritual mass murder upon the altars dedicated to idolatrous vanities, a collective human sacrifice to pagan idols.

Is a pagan "pro-choice" religionist any more entitled to the rights and freedoms of this republic than anty other citizen?

43 posted on 01/25/2003 2:47:38 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Mr. Silverback
How exactly does the evil of Bernard Law and a few other moral morons preclude Wiegand from speaking out against baby-killing hypocrites?

It doesn't. The Religious Left is upset by it though. Too bad.

The Religious Left is indeed a collection of religious philosophies and practices. See my previous post, #43...

Ask yourself: How is it that the Rev. Jesse Jackson can run for President of the United States and Bishop Wiegand cannot?

44 posted on 01/25/2003 3:01:49 AM PST by Sir Francis Dashwood (LET'S ROLL!)
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To: Campion
Nice.

Pretty hard to counter that fine post of yours.
45 posted on 01/25/2003 6:11:29 AM PST by Notwithstanding (America: Home of Abortion on Demand - 42,000,000 Slaughtered)
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To: Cultural Jihad
oh, Ok,

You must remember though, people come across articles from various resources which contain different titles, like this post and the other that was posted earlier. And, many posters don't use keywords, that's why sometimes you have more than one post on the same topic.
46 posted on 01/25/2003 9:01:27 AM PST by Coleus (RU 486 Kills Babies)
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To: Mr. Silverback
Sign the petition, I did:

http://www.cathfam.org/cfexcom/Excom.html

Herod's Heroes:

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2001May/2001hh.htm

http://www.dailycatholic.org/issue/2002Mar/house.htm

Pray the Rosary:
http://www.rosariesforlife.org/information.asp

Very Important Thread for Catholics
Living the Gospel of Life:
A Challenge to American Catholics
A Statement by the Catholic Bishops of the United States

http://www.nccbuscc.org/prolife/gospel.htm

Vote Catholic and get on their e mail list, larryvote@aol.com
http://www.catholicvote.org

Catechism
http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm#2270 http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s2c2a5.htm
Canon Law
http://members.aol.com/abtrbng/canonl.htm
Humanae Vitae
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6humana.htm

VERITATIS SPLENDOR
http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_06081993_veritatis-splendor_en.html
OCTAGESIMA ADVENIENS
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Paul06/p6oct.htm
Evangelium Vitae
http://www.newadvent.org/docs/jp02ev.htm
End Socialism
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11QUADR.HTM
The Bible's Teaching Against Abortion
By: Fr. Frank A. Pavone
http://www.priestsforlife.org/brochures/thebible.html
Catholic Activism
http://www.diocesereport.com/guest_col/kopp_activism_march01.shtml
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/780464/posts
47 posted on 01/25/2003 6:25:58 PM PST by Coleus (RU 486 Kills Babies)
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