Tax Program Develops An Insulting Approach - TurboTax installs Spyware

The Wall Street Journal ^ | Thursday, January 30, 2003 | WALTER S. MOSSBERG

[CdMGuy]

Turbo Tax and Quicken have been doing this for years. Software owners pay way too much if they avail themselves of the direct mailers sent to them by both. I buy my new copies in either Sam's Club or Costco.

[Smogger]

When you dial in to do online filing, Intuit will know that your license is no longer intact. And they'll record that information. Personally identifiable and with social security number attached.

Perhaps, but I suspect that the contract that they enter into with you when the accept your money to perform the electronic filing, and forward your taxes to the IRS supercedes whatever suspicions of piracy they may have. In addition I would guess whatever agreement they have with the IRS prevents precludes them from "sabotaging" your taxes, as some here have suggested, and doing pretty much anything but forwarding them to the IRS.

I don't really see how the activation code scenario that they have gone to differs from the "registration code" scenario they used in the past. No one who filed their taxes using a duplicate "registration code" was prevented from filing electronically last year. So, presumably, Intuit processed millions of electronic filings where the registration code was identical for ALL of the customers.

Futhermore, the four electronic filings per copy was enforced by the software not the servers. So it was really more like 4 electroni filings per install. We'll see if this changes.

[an amused spectator]

Poohbah is a "legal" type, who also appears to be a supporter of prison rape.

Copyright violations are illegal, but torture under the colour of authority is not. Such sentiments would warm the cockles of the heart of Bill Lockyer, liberty-hater extraordinaire.

[an amused spectator]

I believe that your concern also comes under the heading of my post #63, torture under colour of authority.

The Poohbs is an enthusiastic supporter of such practices. ;-)

[George W. Bush]

Poohbah is a "legal" type, who also appears to be a supporter of prison rape.

Yes, I've seen the type around here before.

There are many ignorant people in this country who apparently consider the routine incidence of rape in prison by other inmates to be a positive feature of American justice.

They reap what they sow when these people finally get out of prison. I can't fathom their thinking process. Or detect it. Or stomach it for that matter.

[dpwiener]

I sent the following email to the executives listed on Intuit's web site:

-----Original Message-----
From: Wiener, Daniel
Sent: Thursday, January 30, 2003 1:37 PM
To: Steve_Bennett@intuit.com; Scott_Cook@intuit.com; Bill_Campbell@intuit.com
Cc: Dennis_Adsit@intuit.com Sonita_Ahmed@intuit.com; Tom_Allanson@intuit.com; David_Belle-Isle@intuit.com; Mark_Bercow@intuit.com; Steve_Blundell@intuit.com; Craig_Carlson@intuit.com; Elliot_Cooperstone@intuit.com; Caroline_Donahue@intuit.com; Linda_Fellows@intuit.com; Brooks_Fisher@intuit.com; Jim_Grenier@intuit.com; Jennifer_Hall@intuit.com; Brad_Henske@intuit.com; Bill_Hensler@intuit.com; Kozo_Hiramatsu@intuit.com; Russ_Hobbs@intuit.com; Bill_Ihrie@intuit.com; Bruce_Johnson@intuit.com; Larry_King@intuit.com; Lisa_Lang@intuit.com; Jeff_Langston@intuit.com; Bob_Lasser@intuit.com; Bob_Lawson@intuit.com; Ginny_Lee@intuit.com; Dan_Levin@intuit.com; Miles_Lewitt@intuit.com; Dan_Manack@intuit.com; Bernie_McKay@intuit.com; Bob_Meighan@intuit.com; Bill_Mirbach@intuit.com; Ken_Mudge@intuit.com; Lorrie_Norrington@intuit.com; Carol_Novello@intuit.com; Michael_Potts@intuit.com; Enrico_Roderick@intuit.com; Pankaj_Shukla@intuit.com; Melanie_Singer@intuit.com; Fran_Smallson@intuit.com; Tom_Spencer@intuit.com; Raymond_Stern@intuit.com; Jill_Ward@intuit.com; Donna_Wells@intuit.com; Sherry_Whiteley@intuit.com; David_Windley@intuit.com
Subject: Insulting software

I just finished reading Walter Mossberg's column in today's Wall Street Journal. I am appalled.

For many years now I've been a loyal Intuit customer, as a quick check of your computer records will reveal. I've regularly purchased the federal and state Turbo Tax packages for individuals, as well as the Corporate Business packages. They all worked very well at very reasonable prices, and I had no reason to even look at your competitors. I was just about to again purchase your products to prepare our 2002 returns.

Now you've lost me, just as I'm sure you have lost many, many others. I shall instead buy from one of your competitors who demonstrates more respect for its customers.

I shall not use Turbo Tax again.

Sincerely yours,

Daniel Wiener

[George W. Bush]

Nice work, Daniel! A real one-man FReeping.

[jackbill]

I had already purchased TurboTax, but at least you can now uninstall SafeCast. As a loyal customer Intuit, thanks a lot!

Yes you can uninstall SafeCast, but then your TurboTax will no longer operate. Suggestion: Don't uninstall it until you've finished your return and any future audits that the IRS may request.

[jackbill]

I meant in general. WSJ is writing about a story that has been known for at least a month already in the software forums.

I suspect that there are more readers of the WSJ than all of the "software forums" combined - and then some.

You can bet your bippy that the WSJ article is either the death of Intuit, or a significant change in 2003.

By the way, Intuit's Quicken and QuickBooks has similar problems.

[dpwiener]

Nice work, Daniel! A real one-man FReeping.

Thank you. I have so far gotten back very polite replies from Bob Meighan (Vice President, Tax Development, Consumer Tax Group), Brooks Fisher (Vice President, Vertical Strategy and Integration), and Steve Bennett (President and CEO). Bob Meighan's response was particularly detailed and extensive.

I'm not going to publically post our email exchanges, since I had not indicated to them ahead of time that I might do so.

If people disagree with Intuit's actions, it is important that they communicate that fact (and their reasons) to Intuit. After all, how can we hope or expect a company to correct a mistake unless it receives adequate feedback? Even if the sales of Turbo Tax suffer this year, it does no good unless Intuit understands why the dropoff occurred.

Intuit has valid reasons for wanting to suppress piracy. We need to motivate Intuit to find a different way. Free market competition can be an extremely powerful motivator.

[plymaniac]

Last year I used Tax Cut 2001 Deluxe and it worked great. But I'm cheap. Has anyone tried the free download Tax Act 2002 ?

[meyer]

Well well well....

I'm sitting here with a sealed box of turbotax that I think I'll return to the store. I guess I'll be doing taxes by hand this year. Lets see, enter the amount from box 1a on line.....

[meyer]

How thoroughly depressing; a once respectable company turns into a scumware propagator. They'll lose most of their business for this.

I have used quicken for years. After buying a new computer with XP, the old version of Quicken didn't seem to want to work properly (it was OLD) so I opted to buy the 2003 version. Man was I disappointed. First, the layout of the screen is disappointing. Second, the program can't seem to put things in the proper order. When I reconcile, I have to search for entries where they were in chronological order before. This version groups things in an illogical manner and I don't like that.

But by far the worst problem with Quicken 2003 is that it is constantly trying to get me to use the internet. It is 75% bloated adware, and 25% function. I've gotten it to calm down, but it still has plenty of places where I don't dare place my mouse. Why in the world would I want to put my own sensitive financial data, however insignificant it may be, on the internet. At least at home, it is relatively secure behind hardware and software firewalls.

It looks like MS Money is my next move, unless that tries to act like Quicken as well. Too bad that the old 16-bit version wouldn't run on XP.

[Petronski]

This is old news.

The article he posts was published today. And I believe Intuit's C-Dilla removal program is very recent.

[Petronski]

You may opt-out of these disclosures by following the procedures set forth below under the heading "How You Can Control the Use or Disclosure of Your Information", or by designating your preferences during the registration process.

Federal Privacy law requires they give an opt-out procedure.

[Petronski]

Dan, I used your mailing list for my own missive:

I've been using TurboTax for seven years (check your records for [name redacted]) but this year you can forget it. I will not load up my computer with your spyware C-dilla software. I have read press accounts of your assurances that it's harmless and it only watches out for your copyright concerns, but frankly, what you have done is attempted to fill my computer with YOUR files designed to spy on ME, presumably because you think I'm going to steal your software or sell it to someone else.

I read about this in the Wall Street Journal this morning, but I already knew about it from internet forums (where I met dozens or scores of other people dropping your software like a pox-infected blanket). I don't care if doesn't harm me as long as I don't copy your software, that is totalitarian thinking. And I don't care if it can be removed after I am done with the program, because given the sneaky way you have gone about this, I frankly can't trust you anymore.

I shall not purchase Intuit software anymore (I am also a Quicken user), and I will do my best to spread the word about this underhanded spyware tactic.

You cannot insult your customer and expect his return business. Please remove me from your mailing list, though your e-mail reply to this letter is anticipated.

[real name and address in original]

[George W. Bush]

I have to congratulate you both. It's so much more effective to confront them directly than to just discard their product and get something else. It really presses the point home with them in a way they won't forget.

I suspect they already know they're in serious trouble with this. A lot of message boards and articles show people bristling over the practice. I think it's because it is their tax/financial software that makes it such a hot issue. Perhaps people wouldn't be reacting quite so strongly otherwise.

I have to wonder if they can demonstrate known piracy from last year to justify this C-Dilla thing this year. If so, then do they still feel that way after the market's reaction and the WSJ article.

I suspect they may be having some second thoughts. Just a hunch.

[George W. Bush]

By the way, Intuit's Quicken and QuickBooks has similar problems.

QuickBooks 2002 Premiere doesn't have C-Dilla that I can find. I'm going to check a copy of QuickBooks 2003 Pro that I have access to. I don't know about Quicken but I certainly wouldn't be surprised if you're right since that would be the logical target of large-scale piracy.

[SamAdams76]

This "SafeCast" applet has been a PR disaster for Intuit. Whoever dreamed this up at Intuit sure lost Intuit a lot of money. I wonder if he still has a job.

[Petronski]

I would encourage everyone on this thread who is dropping TurboTax to drop them a line. It doesn't have to be a logorrheal essay like mine, just a line or two. This is not a political Freep, but it is an important and principled one.