BREAKING: NBC News finds Jan 30 NASA Memo showing serious concern about tile damage!

NBC News | February 3, 2003 | Jay Barbree

[Timesink]

Developing. Watch MSNBC for latest. Internal memo shows some engineers believe there was up to a 7 1/2-inch gash from the foam breakoff at launch. Memo was serious enough to go out to all NASA centers two days before disaster.

[KantianBurke]

Howlin - uh what facts? You mentioned how you "heard" from Bill Nelson and how "its been said on all the press conferences" that they didn't have oxygen for more than 14 days - an ascertion which I easily proved false by listing the Columbia's flight schedule - which totals 17 days. Tell me, what other facts did you present??

Chad - You're probably right in that NASA wouldn't have sent up a second shuttle by too late a date. However their hesitancy or ignorance doomed the Columbia. The public has a right to now which factor was present.

[TLBSHOW]

Wrong! Its people like Howlin that turn it into me.

Example is this thread here. It takes a life of its own without the harpers! And it now has about 3 or more threads from just that one.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/835297/posts?page=178#178

[Chad Fairbanks]

Chad - You're probably right in that NASA wouldn't have sent up a second shuttle by too late a date. However their hesitancy or ignorance doomed the Columbia. The public has a right to now which factor was present.

The Columbia was doomed the minute she began re-entry, and I have the feeling that no one knew or suspected it would happen. If by 'ignorance' you mean 'did not know', then I agree that it was ignorance... however, during re-entry, if something goes wrong, there is NOTHING that can save you... nothing...

[justshe]

And somehow....you formed an incorrect opinion of Howlin. She has been a warrior in fighting to get others to drop the rhetoric...and let the investigation progress without the lynch mob mentality. You need to reconsider.

[Howlin]

Can you answer the question or not? You said Columbia burned up because it was at 3000 degrees and was on fire.

I pointed out that ALL the shuttles come in at 3000 degrees and then I asked you why they ALL don't burn up.

Got an answer, or are you going to dodge that one, too.

[VRWC For Truth]

Is the price of losing people on the ground too high a price to pay??? NASA was lucky no one on the ground was killed. It's not just the safety of the astronauts that NASA needs to consider.

[KantianBurke]

My opinion of her is based solely upon her responses to me which I have a hard time translating into anything other than emotionalism and unthinking rhetoric. I've been trying to concentrate on the posts dealing with the technical aspects of the shuttle rather than any of the arguments that have been developing.

[woodyinscc]

" I pointed out that ALL the shuttles come in at 3000 degrees and then I asked you why they ALL don't burn up"

Yes!

Even that dim Senator Nelson just said that the night looked like day because of the 3000 degrees of heat on the outside of the shuttle.

[KantianBurke]

very true. Hopefully future designs will try to rectify that danger

[Howlin]

I guess Todd doesn't know the answer. I've asked him at least four times.

But watch.....he'll still say the shuttle was on fire when it was over CA. Facts do NOT matter to him at all.

[Rome2000]

Prove it. It is YOUR assertion, so PROVE it. I see no way it could be done...

I think I will defer to the experts.

The question hasn't been put to NASA yet as far as I have heard.

Until it is I see no reason to doubt these people, who are the ones who said it was possible:

John Logsdon, director, Space Policy Institute at George Washington University

Donna Shirley, instructor of aeronautics engineering at the University of Oklahoma and former Mars exploration manager at NASA

Alex Roland, chair of the History Department at Duke University and former NASA historian

[KineticKitty]

BUMP

[Gracey]

I agree with your thinking. It's always easy to agree with the Don Nelson's AFTER an occurrence. Nothing he proposed would have saved the Orbiter, if the foam caused the problem. Don Nelson does not understand cost/benefit anaysis.

I'm on my way to Houston for the Memorial.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Is the price of losing people on the ground too high a price to pay??? NASA was lucky no one on the ground was killed. It's not just the safety of the astronauts that NASA needs to consider.

And you think they have never considered that? Do you think the bigwigs at NASA sit around all day, and over a cup of coffee one says, "Ya know, Bob, I've been thinking. If a shuttle broke apart on re-entry, could people on the ground die too?" and another one says, "People on the ground? F****ing civilians. Screw em." is THAT what you think?????

You lynch mob types really disgust me...

[TomServo]

Don't let Todd see you talking to me; he will think you're a friend of mine and he says I have a hard time making friends! (See #777)

I already saw that and am quite willing to state publicly that you are one of my best FRiends here. I think it took all of one post for us to become FRiends. Wasn't so hard to me.

[Chad Fairbanks]

Oh goody - 'experts' from acadamia. Ya know the old saying - 'Those that can DO, those that can't, TEACH'... Provide some 'experts' with real-world hands-on experience...

[TomServo]

Wrong! Its people like Howlin that turn it into me.

All I can say to that is God Save Howlin.

[Chad Fairbanks]

very true. Hopefully future designs will try to rectify that danger

It is, short of lift-off, I think the most vulnerable time in a mission - maybe someday we can figure out a way to make re-entry as error-proof as possible... I don't think we are even close to doing so though... Not because of incompetence or neglect, however, but rather due to limitations in our knowledge... :0(

[Howlin]

You're just saying that because Jean and I agreed you could be the "Already posted here" dude.

[Magnum44]

It doesn't take a genius to figue out that US spy satellites could have taken photos of the underside of the craft.

I have some experience from a former job with this. It is extremely difficult to point a precision instrument moving in one direction at kilometers per sec at another another object moving in a different direction at kilometers per sec. Its possible, but difficult.

And the whole reading a license plate from space thing, well, without saying what we can and cant see, even on a good day in perfect conditions, that would be a challenge. Many people have seen too many movies that tend to assume capabilities beyond those actually in place.

Actually a better bet might have been a look at night from a large ground based telescope. With the right lighting conditions you might see something, but again it would be a challenge to draw conclusions from that. Unless it was a really big hole you were looking at.