The Aim of All Nations Is To Seek For God

Collected Thoughts | 2/10/03 | Fyodor Dostoevsky

[HumanaeVitae]

"Not one nation," he began, as if reciting line by line, and at the same time still looking menacingly at Stavrogin, "not one nation has ever set itself up on the principles of science and reason; there has never been an example of it, unless perhaps only for a moment, out of foolishness. Socialism by its very essence must be atheism, because it has precisely declared, from the very first line, that it is an atheistic order, and intends to set itself up on the principles of science and reason exclusively. Reason and science always, now, and from the beginning of the ages, have performed only a secondary and auxiliary task in the life of nations; and so they will to the end of the ages. Nations are formed and moved by another ruling and dominating force, whose origin is unknown and inexplicable. This force is the force of the unquenchable desire to get to the end, while at the same time denying the end. It is the force of a ceaseless and tireless confirmation of its own being and a denial of death. The Spirit of Life, as Scripture says, the 'rivers of living water,' whose running dry is so threatened in the Apocalypse. The aesthetic principle, as philosophers say, the moral principle, as they also identify it. 'Seeking for God' - as I call it in the simplest way. The aim of all movements of nations, of every nation and in every period of its existence, is solely the seeking for God, its own God, entirely its own, and faith in him as the only true one. God is the synthetic person of the whole nation, taken from its beginning and to its end. It has never yet happened that all or many nations have had one common God, but each has always had a separate one. It is a sign of a nation's extinction when there begin to be gods in common. When there are gods in common, they die along with the belief in them and with the nations themselves. The stronger the nation, the more particular its God. There has never yet been a nation without a religion, that is, without an idea of evil and good. Every nation has its own idea of evil and good, and it own evil and good. When many nations start having common ideas of evil and good, then the nations die out and the very distinction between evil and good begins to fade and disappear. Reason has never been able to define evil and good, or even to separate evil from good, if only approximately; on the contrary, it has always confused them, shamefully and pitifully; and science has offered the solution of the fist."

[HumanaeVitae]

This is taken from Fyodor Dostoevsky's unparalleled critique of socialism and atheism, his novel The Demons, published in 1873, 44 years before the Soviet Revolution. This monologue is spoken by the character Shatov, who represents the old Orthodox Christian order, to Stavrogin, who represents the emerging order of atheism, rationalism and socialism taking hold in Russia. Dostoevsky accurately predicted, in this book, the consequences of his own country, Russia, adopting the utopian ideals of the collectivists over the ancient precepts of Christianity.

The book is a tough read, but passages like this make it all the more worth it. Cheers, something to think about...

[HumanaeVitae]

Ping

[Iris7]

Dostoyevski was the wisest of all novelists.

[Desdemona]

ping

[nickcarraway]

Bump to that! The Demons (also called The Possessed or The Devils is a fantastic book and a gripping read!

[theFIRMbss]

>"not one nation has ever set itself up on the principles of science and reason; there has never been an example of it..."

The modern US
"Establishment" is built on
science and reason.

[Fiddlstix]

Ping

[Dumb_Ox]

God is the synthetic person of the whole nation, taken from its beginning and to its end.

Does this sound like an Orthodox Christian? I don't believe Shatov was meant to represent such a position. Rather, he was an apostate from the revolutionary movement, slowly groping his way back to Christian belief.

[SAMWolf]

Bump.

[nickcarraway]

A herd of many swine was feeding there on the hillside, and they pleaded with him to allow them to enter those swine; and he let them. The demons came out of the man and entered the swine, and the herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and was drowned. When the swineherds saw what had happened, they ran away and reported the incident in the town and throughout the countryside. People came out to see what had happened and, when they approached Jesus, they discovered the man from whom the demons had come out sitting at his feet. He was clothed and in his right mind, and they were seized with fear. Those who witnessed it told them how the possessed man had been saved. The entire population of the region of the Gerasenes asked Jesus to leave them because they were seized with great fear. So he got into a boat and returned. (Luke 8:32-37)

[nickcarraway]

You see, it is just like our Russia. Those devils or demons coming out of the sick and entering into the swine—they are all the festering sores, all the poisonous vapors, all the filth, all the demons and the petty devils accumulated for centuries and centuries in our great, dear, sick Russia.... But the Great Idea and the Great Will protects her from up above, just as it did that other madman possessed by demons, and all those demons, all that filth festering on the surface, will themselves beg to be allowed to enter the swine. Indeed, they may have entered them already! It's us, us and the others—my son Peter and those around him, and we'll hurl ourselves from the cliff into the sea, and I'll be the first perhaps, and all of us, mad and raving, will drown and it will serve us right because that's all we're fit for. But the sick man will recover and will sit at the feet of Jesus (The Possessed, trans. Andrew R. MacAndrew (New York, signet edition, 1962), p. 671)

[HumanaeVitae]

True, and you are correct--Shatov is groping his way back to faith. Many think that Dostoevsky represents himself in Shatov...

[HumanaeVitae]

Indeed he was.

[HumanaeVitae]

Nick--

I have a more current translation (Pevear), but look up Kirillov's dialogue right before his suicide. That's the most gripping--and relevant--passage in the book. Explaining why he wishes to commit suicide. It's in the chapter "A Toilsome Night", I believe (I don't have the book handy).

[apackof2]

Excellent, thank you

PR 11:14 For lack of guidance a nation falls,

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." John Adams

"The future and success of America is not in this Constitution, but in the laws of God upon which this Constitution is founded." James Madison

No truth is more evident to any mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people." Noah Webster

It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible." George Washington

[nickcarraway]

Dostoyevski was the wisest of all novelists.

Yes! And I can only imagine how many atheists have come to believe through his work.

[nickcarraway]

Yes! Kirilov is an amazing character. Very few, if any other, writers could have imagined that character. Dostoyevsky creates characters from the whole spectrum of humanity. Also ``At Thikon's (Stavrogin's confession)'' Who else could have created that?

[nickcarraway]

Speak of ``The Devils.''

[nickcarraway]

ping

[HumanaeVitae]

You have freepmail.