The Palmyra sp? New York court records are evidently quite clear on what--3 or 4 different convictions for defrauding farmers?
Walter Martin--I think also a descendant of B Young or J Smith, I forget which--researched such things exhaustively. His research skills and integrity stand as models.
Another famous couple who left the church having had to fact far tooooo much uncomfortable truth to any more pretend there was anything valid to believe also has done extensive research on such things. Wish I could think of their names. Guess I'll have to go to Google when I have the time.
I don't think B Young NOR J Smith have ANY grounds to stand on in terms of integrity. Their abuse of a long list of people is just far too extensive.
I standy by the walking on water story. It was not 5th hand. I talked to the son of the man who saw it happen.
Just the changes in the Book of Mormon alone--the Book they used to deny was ever changed--but went through AT LEAST 5 revisions--just those changes alone are enough to call foul about.
"Walter Martin...researched such things exhaustively. His research skills and integrity stand as models. "
That is your opinion, others feel quite differently about him
http://www.fairlds.org/apol/ai187.html and both his evidence and conclusions on that specific matter (and so many others) are disputed by others.
"I don't think B Young NOR J Smith have ANY grounds to stand on in terms of integrity. Their abuse of a long list of people is just far too extensive. "
Well, you are entitled to hold whatever opinion you wish, but it reall boils down to who's claims you choose to trust and who's you choose to reject.
"I standy by the walking on water story. It was not 5th hand. I talked to the son of the man who saw it happen. "
LOL, it is still hearsay and rumour, and given that he died in the 1840's I think you are missing a few generations. Add to that just how unrealistic the plan sounds (chicken wire?), and how in spite of so many people back then being out to 'get' Joseph, there is no historical evidence of such a public goof-up. I don't doubt you were told such a story, but it is just funny story.
As for the rest of your post, you have clearly only been presented with only one, very biased and inaccurate side of the story and do not realize what lies, distrotions and half-truths have been fed to you. This is not the thread go into a long religous discussion, so in the interestes of keeping this thread on topic leave it up to you or anyone else who wants the other side to contact me.