See men shredded, then say you don't back war (MUST, MUST READ!)

The Times ^ | March 18, 2003 | Ann Clwyd

[MadIvan]

“There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”

This is one of the many witness statements that were taken by researchers from Indict — the organisation I chair — to provide evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two weeks.

Another witness told us about practices of the security services towards women: “Women were suspended by their hair as their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation.”

The accounts Indict has heard over the past six years are disgusting and horrifying. Our task is not merely passively to record what we are told but to challenge it as well, so that the evidence we produce is of the highest quality. All witnesses swear that their statements are true and sign them.

For these humanitarian reasons alone, it is essential to liberate the people of Iraq from the regime of Saddam. The 17 UN resolutions passed since 1991 on Iraq include Resolution 688, which calls for an end to repression of Iraqi civilians. It has been ignored. Torture, execution and ethnic-cleansing are everyday life in Saddam’s Iraq.

Were it not for the no-fly zones in the south and north of Iraq — which some people still claim are illegal — the Kurds and the Shia would no doubt still be attacked by Iraqi helicopter gunships.

For more than 20 years, senior Iraqi officials have committed genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. This list includes far more than the gassing of 5,000 in Halabja and other villages in 1988. It includes serial war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war; the genocidal Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88; the invasion of Kuwait and the killing of more than 1,000 Kuwaiti civilians; the violent suppression, which I witnessed, of the 1991 Kurdish uprising that led to 30,000 or more civilian deaths; the draining of the Southern Marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically cleansed thousands of Shias; and the summary executions of thousands of political opponents.

Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot and the Ugandans from Idi Amin when these took place without UN help. They ask why the world has ignored the crimes against them?

All these crimes have been recorded in detail by the UN, the US, Kuwaiti, British, Iranian and other Governments and groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty and Indict. Yet the Security Council has failed to set up a war crimes tribunal on Iraq because of opposition from France, China and Russia. As a result, no Iraqi official has ever been indicted for some of the worst crimes of the 20th century. I have said incessantly that I would have preferred such a tribunal to war. But the time for offering Saddam incentives and more time is over.

I do not have a monopoly on wisdom or morality. But I know one thing. This evil, fascist regime must come to an end. With or without the help of the Security Council, and with or without the backing of the Labour Party in the House of Commons tonight.

The author is Labour MP for Cynon Valley.

[=Intervention=]

It's amazing when the Labour party says this, isn't it? If anyone in the UK, politically speaking, would disbelieve these accounts, wouldn't they? If anyone would be suspicious of these things, wouldn't they? The fact that they're not only listening to the eye-witnesses, but distributing the information, and that, publically, leads me to believe that these aren't lies. Perhaps that man is duped? Perhaps. In a country that's roughly 60% against the war, he's taking a major political risk both now, and in the long run. The situation, by all appearances, seems to indicate that the truth is being told. Trust but verify.

[Humidston]

You keep this up Ivan, and I'm going to have to nominate you for the Best poster on FR!

[buffyt]

Just what I have been thinking.... either we are RIGHT to get rid of Hussein or we were WRONG to get rid of Hitler. Both = 100% pure evil, killing thousands of their own people!

[DCPatriot]

Cheers, Ivan!

[buffyt]

I second that motion or nomination or whatever it is! Ivan is the best!

[goodieD]

The leftists don't care about the people of Iraq, they are filled with hatred and intolerance for anything good and decent.

[Kay Soze]

Horrible.

These are guys are sick?

But how do we explain not taking advantage of the situation and removing someone like this?

[Alberta's Child]

Why do you put the "liberation" of Kuwait in quote marks?

Because using U.S. military forces to restore a royal family to a throne hardly qualifies as an act of "liberation" in my opinion. Particularly when the royal family in this case happens to rule one of the more radical Islamic nations on the planet.

[DCPatriot]

It's not unusual to paint your enemy as sub-human. I suppose it makes "killing them" easy on the conscience.

Anything to drum up support, though silent.

[Kay Soze]

Every "peace nic" you list is profiting from direct business dealings with these butchers.

Aad against UN resolutions.

Why do we need the buthcer or his support agency - the UN?

[Mrs.Liberty]

Sadly, I'm unemployed at the moment. Regards, Ivan

Well, your "work" here, though unpaid, is much appreciated!

[Ichneumon]

Yeah, sure they were. Just like those babies in Kuwaiti hospitals were thrown from their incubators to die on the cold, hard floor. I'm all weepy now. I just love being lied to in order to demonize an entire country. What kind of sick, base, demented, M.F. sits around and thinks this stuff up?

25,000 shoes recovered from Auschwitz. One guess what happened to their owners.

Go ahead and close your eyes to the evil that psychopathic dictators are capable of. But that doesn't make it not true.

[=Intervention=]

It must be said, by seeking to disprove something by claiming other lies as truth is a very ineffective strategy. The country was INVADED by Saddam and then liberated (both militarily and somewhat politically) by the Allied forces. And oh yeah, the United States was so busy propping up Hitler in the 30's. The U.S was busy with the Great Depression in the '30's. Foreign policy was the LAST thing on our minds.

[L_Von_Mises]

Thanks for the ping. Missed ya at the counterprotest, hope all is well, LVM.

[tomahawk]

That's what I thought you meant, but I wanted to ask to be sure.

Are Kuwaitis being mass-murdered, raped, and plundered by the Kuwaiti regime? I think not. I think 99.99% of Kuwaitis would consider themselves to have been liberated by the coalition forces. Just because they don't have a democracy doesn't mean they weren't liberated from Saddam Hussein and Iraqi occuption.

[CMClay]

How dare Saddam kill these people, that is our job
lol!

[wtc911]

I agree, this does smack of manipulation similar to the Kuwaiti girl's lies to Congress, although I tend to find this more likely true. These atrocities though are not a cause for war. If they were then we would have to invade half of Africa, half of South America, Turkey, Iran, any other country where similar (as yet unproven) allegations have been made. We are going to war for global re-alignment reasons. The stopping of this type of barbarism will be a benefit, not a cause.

[FirstTomato]

Clamboat, you are always good for a laugh! I'm sure that's why Jim keeps you around.

[ez]

Ms. Clwyd was in leadership...a frontbencher when she began to speak out against Saddam's evil tortuous repression of the Iraqi people. She walked the walk...she went to Iraq as a Labour partisan and had an epiphany. She saw the truth.

Her reward for coming back and publishing information which damages Labour's position was a demotion to backbencher, where she sits in the very last row.

She is as big a hero as Mr. Blair among Brits and deserves our recognition.

The truth of Saddam's atrocities has been hidden long enough.