Posted on 03/20/2003 10:18:51 PM PST by FreeReporting
The point I was trying to make is that there is no hierarchy or magisterium as such in the Judaic tradition. At the risk of stating it incorrectly, I'm under the impression that the priestly class (Cohen?) is no more and that Israel has been absent a place of worship ever since the destruction of the Temple and that synagogue (while incorporating and instilling the reality of God as literally adorable) are primarily the transmitters of faith and education in the faith rather than places of worship, per se.
In questioning the validity of a Knesset (as opposed to rabbinical) pronouncement on the relative merits of the different Jewish strains, I was asking for some insight on the nature of the State's authority in such matters.
Although Zionist Conspirator has kindly pointed out some differences between the State of Israel and what he or she believes would be a truly "Jewish" nation, I think the case can be made that the State of Israel has a great effect and may well enjoy a certain authority where the practice of Judaism is concerned. It appears that way for an outside looking in but I can't know for sure. That's why I ask questions.
In keeping with the strictest Catholic theology, is it theoretically possible for a member of the Catholic Church to be more Catholic than the Pope?
I think there are many Catholics who, understanding the reality inherent in all manner of rubrics, would never kiss the Koran and who, understanding the black and white nature of Canon Law, are still nonplussed by Blair's receiving the Eucharist when he is not a member of our closed communion.
Without a doubt, history shows that plenty of Popes were decadent, fallen or worldly men evidencing nowhere near the genuine piety, discipline or obedience to faith of their contemporary Catholic laity.
None of that diminishes the fact that the Bishop of Rome yet has a certain authority as the only who speaks ex cathedra. I think it's a testament to the enduring nature of the Church that this authority has not been abused in the past (to the detriment or adulterating of dogma) even as it's been eschewed in the present (where Popes have missed the opportunity to grant Humanae Vitae and other restatements of Catholic dogma the respect and full measure of authority they deserve).
It's exactly because of the hierarchy, Canon Law and Magisterium that indeed faithful Catholics do have grounds on which to decry and seek to amend what is inconsistent with Catholic teaching as evidenced by actions, ideologies and radical theology of their priests, bishops, cardinals and even the Pope himself.
Classic post, as a matter of fact ... I have always admired your ability to pepper your primary purpose here with the posting bona fides necessary to evidence your love of country even as you put Israel first always.
When you're ready to back up your more cursory comments about LF, I'll know by the way you post a thread on it rather than use it as some red herring to provoke folks with your more outlandish characterizations in an attempt to impugn with guilt by association.
Were Veronica to spend more time canvasing the place, she'd probably find that the subject often rivals the worst of Israeli threads for acrimony and endless navel-gazing contention.
I know it sounds as though I'm defending the System but, in fact, I'm one of its loudest critics as based primarily on its subjective nature and its utter incompatibility with the ancap and/or libertarian principles as I understand them.
Be that as it may ... it's still a free country, right? I think folks ought to roam as they please without fear of the Dossier-Builders looking over their shoulders.
I've always defended the right of any Owner -- be it Jim, Neil or John Deere -- to run their place as they see fit. I've just never been sure how it is a poster's alleged behavior elsewhere is grounds to censure them if they've respected the rules of the site on which they're posting.
Perhaps the internet is a stalking horse of sorts on the Right to Privacy and our sensibilities in this regard are begin degraded accordingly.
Thanks, regards and apologies. I have obviously misinterpreted 'As a Catholic familiar with the "more Catholic than the Pope concept" ... sometimes I wonder that the State of Israel doesn't consider itself somehow "more Jewish than the Practicing Jews".
They hate Israel because Israel is a friend of the United States, and becuse it is a democracy.
Perhaps one day you'll explain to me why Rhodesia and South Africa were supported uncritically by conservatives such as yourself who suddenly become very moral when it comes to Israel.
Anti-semitism is evil and a sin. But why is it permissible to slander Christianity and link it to Naziism? why is outright hatred of and libeling of Christianity permissible?
I want a stop to antisemitism - - AND to the bashing of Christianity.
All those crosses at Normandy testify to the blood of Christian soldiers shed in the fight against Naziis. So STOP DEFAMING CHRISTIANITY AS SOME KIND OF HANDMAID TO NAZIISM
This sounds like anti-Christian prejudice and venom - - which should be as impermissible as antisemitism. Do you know what was sung at the Atlantic Conference meeting of Churchill and Roosevelt, as they made their plans to counter the (anti-Christian) Hitler? "Onward Christian Soldiers" was the hymn that the assembled allied leaders sang. Normandy is covered with crosses - above the graves of Christian soldiers who died fighting Hitler's forces. If you mean to defame their faith, you should stop - because you're defaming those brave and good men. If you don't mean to do so, then you should be more careful with your words.
This is a bold assumption on your part. If you want to start a thread on that subject, perhaps you'll find out what my thoughts really are.
I was making no claim whatsoever to judge the degree of "Jewishness" of Israel. I was merely asking how it was that the State of Israel can claim a singularly Jewish identity without its actions being judged in light of Judaic tradition ... particularly where God's and Father Abraham's words and actions are concerned.
Again, I thank you for pointing out the fact that it may well be "Jewish" for Israel to judge others -- Jew, Muslim, Gentile alike -- and annihilate them as it pleases.
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that, but perhaps someone will weigh in with some further insight.
It's not I that have a problem with Nationalism, per se, but I think that any people who claim belief in and obedience to God would put his will before that of the State, that's all.
What's really strange about your bringing up the whole subject of Israel as instrument of God's will where the annihilation of others was concerned is that I was defending just this premise on Liberty Forum the other day where an atheist was questioning how a God who operated thus could possibly be a moral or forgiving entity rather than a Creator who not only permitted but created "evil" men and sanctioned the killing of innocents by Elect in some pragmatic or Calvinist effort to rectify his mistakes where Reprobates were concerned.
I'm still thinking about that one, actually. I stand by the defenses I offered -- pointing out that mercy was granted to some (the harlot who harbored Israel's spies and the folks who, swearing on the name of God, were made servants rather than eradicated) and that others brought on their own demise by specifically challenging Israel. Naturally, because I'm a Catholic, I also noted for the record that there are differences between the Old and the New Covenants.
But particularly given your reminder that even Jews could be subject to such annihilation should they forget their fear of the Lord, I guess it's back to the drawing board with me.
Blaming Christianity for Naziism is as vile as the antisemites who down the years have tried to blame Judaism for Bolshevism. I denounce those antisemites. If you want to be an effective spokesman against antisemitism, then you should stop cavalierly hurling statements that could be interpreted as anti-Christian.
Just for purposes of clarifying the Laws in question, are you Jewish?
(I do always identify myself as a Catholic ... primarily because it does -- or should -- underscore my indebtedness to, respect for yet differences with the Judaic tradition.)
I am a practicing Noachide, which is the true religion for all non-Jews (do a web search). It also makes me, according to "palaeoconservatives," a foot soldier for the "new world order."
Are you ever going to tell me why "true conservatives" are expected to condemn Israel for things they supported in Rhodesia and South Africa? If you refuse to answer this I will take your silence as a full explanation.
Well, my only real familiarity with this term comes from aspersions cast at Arator by others. I guess, given the ability to convert to Judaism (which I don't quite understand), I also don't understand why you aren't Jewish. I'll check it out but if you'd be so kind, I would appreciate any insight you've got on how or why you believe it the "one true religion" for non-Jews.
Because I've not defended in the least the lack of consistency by which "true conservatives" defend actions by some countries they condemn when perpetrated by others, I fail to see why you're asking that I do so now.
Further, I have a problem with the "conservative" label as such. I fail to see what is worth "conserving" in a profoundly leftist age.
I don't consider myself a "conservative" in the conventional sense. I'm a Catholic and -- consistently applying my Catholic sensibility -- am alternately viewed as a "conservative" or "liberal" depending upon the subject at hand.
I'm a "conservative" for staunchly defending the right to life but "liberal" where I extend that regard to the subject of capital punishment, for example.
Amen!
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. (Rom.11:25)
As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes; but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers sakes. (Rom.11:28)
You might also find it interesting to read Barbara Tuchman's "Bible and Sword" where she explores the forces that led up to the Balfour and creation of Israel. Those forces were at work long before Hitler and the Holocaust
Amen! Thanks for the recommendation.
Very true.
True Christianity is never anti-Jewish (Rom.11:28.
It is only religious groups that go under the name of 'Christian' who think that they have replaced the Jew in God's Plan, who are indifferent to Jews being persecuted.
They are 'wise in their own conceits' (Rom.11:25)
True Christianity is never anti-Jewish (Rom.11:28.
It is only religious groups that go under the name of 'Christian' who think that they have replaced the Jew in God's Plan, who are indifferent to Jews being persecuted.
They are 'wise in their own conceits' (Rom.11:25)
Yes! (History)
Exodus 14:30-31
Exodus 15:21
Maranatha!
(Romans 10:17)
I'd like to know why Mr. Robinson permits anti-catholic diabtribes on this board. If someone wrote similarly about Rabbis, would the post be allowed? I would hope not. For what it's worth, I'm pressing the abuse button.
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