The new anti-Semitism

The Spectator ^ | 22 March 2003 | Melanie Philips

[Askel5]

I loved her book on the 14th century, "A Distant Mirror" ... she's wonderful. I had no idea she'd written on the subject.

Indeed, the forces were at work for a couple centuries in advance. I will definitely look for her book, thanks!

You know ... a priest I heard speak recently mentioned that one reason the early Christians were so hard on the Pharisee was because many had been Pharisees themselves. A sort of distancing from or repudiation of their past.

And I suspect more than a few of the early Christians -- many of whom yet practiced Judaism as well -- had to remember that indeed Gentiles were every bit the "target audience" that their fellow Jews were. Only natural it would be that way, I suppose.

[Jumper]

Hey, I only know what I read.

I have not doubt that the Bible is responsible for very much in this world today. Morality, AngloSaxon Rule of Law, and 91% of the world's conflicts are rooted in the Holy Book's teachings.

I for one beleive what the Bible states in the Old Testament, and understand the different/influence/change to the New Testament. Much of what these writings reveal were written before the current state of affairs in the Arab World or the arrival Allah.

I know I'm not much help. I did study about 24 hours of religions in school, but totally missed the Islamic one for which I did not have an interest due to my perception that it was unimportant (Boy, was I ever wrong)!

[veronica]

Many of my favorite posters hang out at LF. They follow the stories I like to follow and are able to post sources there that are not allowed here anymore.

Well now, that sort of says it all.

[veronica]

Bump.

[Catspaw]

Good ol' LF--prime recruiting ground for Stormfront, the National Alliance and other neo-Nazi groups. It's no wonder Askel5 fits right in.

[wideawake]

Hello, dennisw.

Let me lay my cards on the table first: I am a believing, practicing and loyal Roman Catholic.

I also believe that the State of Israel is showing remarkable restraint toards the enemies that are trying to destroy it. I believe that the Palestinians have no legitimate grievances of any kind against either the State of Israel or against individual Jews. I believe that there should be no Palestinian state in the land of Israel.

But I take issue with the demonization of Christianity for two reasons: (1) it is grossly exaggerated and (2) it serves no tactical purpose.

The blood libel was invented as a slander against the Jews in ancient Egypt by the pagan priest Manetho before Christianity was ever heard of - and the blood libel exists nowhere in early Christian literature. It only became current in Europe after Europeans returned from the Crusades in the Middle East.

The Europe from which the Jews were driven was certainly not a Europe which still practiced Christianity as a daily faith - one-half of the voting population of 1930s Europe was affiliated with militant atheism of either the Communist, Syndicalist or Socialist variety.

Fascism was an openly pagan movement, with Mussolini calling for the restoration of the ancient Roman Empire and Hitler extolling the virtues of a nature religion reminiscent of the ancient Canaanites.

Did millions of Christians fail in their moral responsibilities toward their Jewish neighbors? Undoubtedly. My great uncle did not - he died at the Nazi camp in Gusen for hiding undesirables in his rectory.

But the fact today is clear: the vast majority of devout, practicing Christians support the State of Israel and the struggle of the Jewish people for self-determination.

Badmouthing Christians and Christianity serves absolutely no purpose.

[bvw]

THe US is and isn't a Christian nation. It is, certain that Christianity is the "religion" with the most adherents and that there are a few rare laws, treaties and legal decisions specifically recognizing the US as a Christian nation. Yet "Christianity" is like gumbo in expansiveness and varied recipe -- spanning forms that include in range High Anglican, Tridentine Catholic, Snake-charming Baptist, Mormon, Quaker, Jamacian blended voodoo, Episcapalian, Arab Marionite, South American Italian Reborn Baptist, Unitarian, Shaker (all three of them at last count, I hear), on and on an on.

If anything we are a Meta-Christian Nation, where the "Meta " includes all the Christian Sects, Diests, Jews, Muslims, occasionaly G-d Fearing agnostics, and utopians of various exotic stripes,

The US has always been a "religious" state. It is impossible NOT to a religious state. The only real question is what "religion"?

Israel is a JEWISH PLACE. Note I said PLACE.

As the Creator mapped and set the world, that is the way the is.

[Stultis]

Conference Schedule

[a contender]

"Let me lay my cards on the table first: I am a believing, practicing and loyal Roman Catholic."

Ahhh, so was Hitler, baptisted, confirmed, cookie eating, Roman CAT-HOLIC who never was excommunicated. He said he was on a "mission for Christ".

Be careful, don't mess with Gods chosen people, or He will mess with you...
God promised both Abraham and his grandson, Jacob: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse HIM that curseth thee." Gen.12:3, Gen.27:29

History proves this, just take a look at Egypt and Rome. Other examples are Babylon, Persia and Greece. All these were once world super-powers...till they messed with that Jew.

One lesson history proves to us is that if you mess with that Jew God will mess with you!!!
LOVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE!!!
btw, I am not a Jew, but I thank God for them because they brought the gospel to the world!!!

[maestro]

Jewish/Jew/Israel: read Christian

[dennisw]

I thank you.

What can I say but that in 1938 Europe was considered a Christian continent with a Jewish minority. The Middle East was considered Muslim turf (territory) with a minority of Christians and Jews. People took their religions more seriously back then. Religions permeated the social and cultural life more so than today. There wasn't TV, video games, computers etc. to clutter one's mind with images, distractions. Yes, the nazis were pagans and so were many (but far from all) of their followers.

The Europe of June 1945 found 60%-65% of European Jews killed or having fled. 60%-65% is my quick estimate based on numbers below. The 3 URLs below give Jewish population estimates. Percentage killed by Nazis in WW2.

http://www.holocaustchronicle.org/HolocaustAppendices.html

http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi

http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/Holocaust/36quest1.html#5

How many Jews were murdered in each country and what percentage of the pre-war Jewish population did they constitute?

Answer: (Source: Encyclopedia of the Holocaust)
Austria 50,000 -- 27.0%
Italy 7,680 -- 17.3%
Belgium 28,900 -- 44.0%
Latvia 71,500 -- 78.1%
Bohemia/Moravia 78,150 -- 66.1%
Lithuania 143,000 -- 85.1%
Bulgaria 0 -- 0.0%
Luxembourg 1,950 -- 55.7%
Denmark 60 -- 0.7%
Netherlands 100,000 -- 71.4%
Estonia 2,000 -- 44.4%
Norway 762 -- 44.8%
Finland 7 -- 0.3%
Poland 3,000,000 -- 90.9%
France 77,320 -- 22.1%
Romania 287,000 -- 47.1%
Germany 141,500 -- 25.0%
Slovakia 71,000 -- 79.8%
Greece 67,000 -- 86.6%
Soviet Union 1,100,000 -- 36.4%
Hungary 569,000 -- 69.0%
Yugoslavia 63,300 -- 81.2%

[maestro]

printout ping,.......FYI................bttt

[wideawake]

Hitler was an excommunicant.

In 1923 he incurred a latae sententiae excommunication by joining a proscribed anti-Catholic secret society. That excommunication was never lifted or absolved in any way.

Hitler never said that he was on a "mission for Christ." Please produce your evidence for this absurd claim, referencing the date and primary source.

Your post implies that you have an extremly immature worldview, don't know very much about history or the Catholic Church and that you have absolutely no courtesy or respect for others.

I will pray for you.

[Anamensis]

Trying to talk sense to Askel is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Why do you even try?

[a contender]

"Your post implies that you have an extremly immature worldview, don't know very much about history or the Catholic Church and that you have absolutely no courtesy or respect for others."

LOL, LOL... you'd better stop reading "revised" history and get your bible out.


LOVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE


Every one seems to forget God's little known promise to Israel...
"I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee;" Genesis 12:3

At one time, Egypt was the envy of the world! No nation could touch her for wealth, military power, agriculture or science. In architecture, Egypt had no rivals. She was the most powerful nation on earth. But Egypt made a fatal mistake. The slaves she used to build her empire belonged to someone else. And their rightful owner watched the Egyptians mistreat His people for 400 years...The rest of the story is in your bible, Pharoah, the plagues, the exodus...
Today, Egyptian tour guides can only boast about her glorious past. Egypt is now a backward nation, full of memories, relying on others for her aid. Egypt is STILL ISRAELS ENEMY!


Remember Rome? When mighty Rome ruled the world, the Jews were mistreated under her iron fist. Where is the Roman empire today? Throughout history, many empires sent forth their armies to capture Jerusalem. The Jews suffered under
each one...and EACH EMPIRE CRUMBLED!

In 1933, Catholic Germany, serving the Vatican, launched a 20th century inquisition, murdering 6 million Jews. Hitler said that the Jews were subhuman parasites that must be destroyed. Instead, GOD destoyed Hitler...and his dream! Israel's deadliest enemy is the Vatican. Israel will regret any agreements with Rome. God will destroy the Vatican just before the second coming of the Messiah. (Rev.18)
(Hitler worked closely with the Jesuits, see "Secret History of the Jesuits" by Paris.
God promised both Abraham and his grandson, Jacob: "I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee." Genesis 12:3 and Genesis 27:29.
LOVE THE JEWISH PEOPLE!

At the beginning of World War I, the English boasted that the sun never set on the British empire. Now her empire is gone. London governs only a few isolated islands and small colonies. What happened?

Here's another example! God blessed England because of Queen Victoria 1819-1901. (She was a God-fearing ruler who read her Bible for guidance.) Great Britain grew in power until 1918. But because England forgot about God's little-known promise to Israel..."I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee:" Genesis 12:3.
God has now cursed England. She is finished as a major power...because she crossed the Jews!
That same curse is still in effect today.
Niger
Chad
Ethiopia
Nigeria
Upper Volta
Senegal
Mali
All these African nations have two things in common:
1. They ALL broke off diplomatic relationships with Israel.
2. They ALL suffered in the terrible famine and drought caused by the expanding Sahara desert.
During World War I, the British naval guns were running short of gunpowder. The situation was desparate. Sir William Churchhill, the first Lord of the Admiralty, contacted a brilliant Jewish chemist named Chaim Weizmann for help. Could he produce 30,000 tons of synthetic acetone so the British could manufacture cordite gunpowder? He did and became a national hero. When asked what he wanted for his services, he said "I want a national home for my people." His wish was granted. The Balfour Declaration, issued in Nov. 1917, was Britain's promise to the Jews of a homeland in Israel. The land of Israel, then Palestine, formerly belonging to Turkey, was placed under British control in 1923.
Here's where the trouble starts...

To find favor with the Arabs, British politicians divided Palestine, giving the Arabs the best land. ( The Fall and Rise of Israel, by Hull, pg.137). Jewish immigration was cut to a trickle and eventually stopped.
As Hitlers blood bath started in 1938, Jews begged the British for permission to enter Palestine. But their cries fell on deaf ears. They were turned back to Europe and ended up in Nazi ovens. (The Rise and Fall of Israel pg.198-200). When Israel became a nation on May 14, 1948, Great Britian ignored God's promise to Israel. She...
Opposed the Jewish State.
Backed the Arabs.
Disarmed the Jews.
Staffed the Transjordan Arab Legion with British officers.
Today England is in deep trouble.

Russia was the enemy of Israel...and look at the mess she's in today!
And in the future, the Bible says Russia will be destroyed when she moves against Israel. (Ezekiel 38, Magog-ancient name for Russia).
That will be World War III, a one day fire war. One-fourth of the world's population will die. (Revelation 6:8). Interesting note, Israel will survive this war.
God has always blessed the U.S. for not persecuting the Jews and for supporting Israel.
But now the whole picture has changed. America has armed Israel's enemies, and anti-semetism is on the rise. As a result, America, now deeply in debt, is becoming a mere puppet to the U.N. and the World Court. ALL BECAUSE OF OIL! The U.S. has put herself in jeopardy.

In the end times, Israel will play a vital role in Bible prophecy. Satan's man (The Beast) will arise out of Rome as the world leader. His ultimate goal will be to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The Beast will order all armies of the world (U.N.) to converge on Israel to destroy her. This will be the Battle of Armageddon.
When all seems lost, Israel's Messiah will burst through the clouds and save her. He will destroy the invading armies(U.N.)...take over all governments...and Judge ALL nations that opposed Israel!
WHO IS ISRAEL'S MESSIAH?
Genesis 1:26 His pre-existence
Genesis 3:15 Born of the seed of a women
Genesis 12:3 Of the seed of Abraham
Genesis 49:10 From the trible of Judah
Isaiah 9:6-7 Heir to the throne of David
Micah 5:2 Born in Bethlehem
Daniel 9:25 At the appointed time
Isaiah 7:14 Born of a virgin
Psalm 2:7 Declared to be the Son of God
Deut. 18:15 Would be a prophet
Isaiah 53:3 Rejected by his own
Zechariah 9:9 He entered Jerusalem as a king riding on an ass
Zechariah 11:12 Sold for 30 pieces of silver
Psalm 35:11 Accused by false witnesses
Isaiah 53:7 Silent to accusations
Isaiah 50:6 Spat upon and smitten
Psalm 35:19 Hated without a cause
Isaiah 53:5 The sacrificial lamb
Isaish 53:12 Crucified with criminals
Zechariah 12:10 Pierced through hands, feet and side
Psalm 69:21 Given vinigar and gall
Psalm 22:18 Soldiers gambled for his coat
Psalm 34:20 No bones broken
Isaiah 53:9 Buried with the rich
Psalm 16:10; 49:15 Resurrected from the dead
Psalm 68:18 Ascended to right hand of God
Malachi 3:2-3 His coming glory
The ONLY person...past, present or future...who could fulfill all these prophecies is Jesus (Yeshua the Messiah).

The Messiah came to earth and shed his precious blood to take away the sin of the world. He arose from the dead and was seen by over 500 witnesses (I Cor.15:6).
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
"He came unto his own, and his own received him not." (John 1:11)


Are those enough "REFERENCES" for you???

[dennisw]

Badmouthing Christians and Christianity serves absolutely no purpose.

I never badmouth Christianity in general. Israel has many Christian friends and many more Christians who don't buy into the Muslim Jihad lies about Israel. But I do speak about the specifics of the Europe of 1930-1950. This was a Christian continent than drove out it's Jews. Even after 1945 Jews were driven out and many just fled from despair and poverty. Many non Jews also wanted out of post war Europe. To be fair: Not all European Jews were driven out and  killed. Roughly 65% were.

The numbers shows the Nazi machine killing far more Jews in Eastern Europe than in Western Europe. Most of the death camps, extermination camps were in Poland.

If Israel expelled their 1,100,000 Palestinians tomorrow, the comments would be the Jews drove out their Muslim population. Others would say the Israelis drove out their Arab minority.

[dennisw]

Trying to talk sense to Askel is like trying to nail jello to a tree. Why do you even try?
____________

Very true but I don't often get get the chance since she doesn't post here as much as she used to.

[Tauzero]

Excellent discussion Askel5 (for the first 20 posts or so.)

I am in awe of your ability to retain your cool.

[wideawake]

It's your contention that Christians in the Europe of 1938 took their religion seriously.

I think two important historical phenomena disprove that: (1) the Holocaust, (2) the almost complete and utter dominance of openly anti-Christian and anticlerical Socialist and Communist parties in every major European country except Spain.

The fact that the largest cohort of Jews in Europe lived in Catholic Poland for centuries with minimal social friction, and then the fact that after barely three years of Nazi rule more than 3 million Polish Jews were murdered shows the difference.

Two groups were systematic targets of the Nazi persecution in Poland: first and foremost the Jewish people in general (men, women and children) and secondarily, the Catholic clergy.

If Christians were truly allies or architects of anti-Semitic persecution then one would expect the Polish clergy to have occupied a place of honor among the Nazi conquerors. Instead, they were almost eliminated. 7,000 of them were killed, including 1,500 at Auschwitz. About one-third of the Polish clergy were killed, about one-third were imprisoned and about one-third went into hiding.

I don't cite these stats as a comparison, since nothing can compare to the suffering of Polish Jewry - but as an illustration of the fact that Nazism had very little to do ideologically with Christianity.