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The Second Front
NewsMax.com ^ | March 24, 2003 | David Horowitz

Posted on 03/24/2003 3:48:47 PM PST by conservativecorner

Before the fighting started, one of the fears expressed by critics of the war to liberate Iraq was the prospect of terrorist attacks that al-Qaeda and other jihadist organizations might launch against Americans at home and abroad. A war on Iraq would distract us from the war on terror.

The Democratic Party, which did not want to go to war against Iraq in 1991 or 2003, made this its principal point of criticism of administration policy. It was the pre-war theme of Democrats like Joe Biden, ranking member on the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee, Tom Daschle, Senate minority leader, Ted Kennedy and ex-President Bill Clinton.

Indeed, on the eve of the war, a call was issued in the name of the (probably dead) Osama bin Laden to launch such an assault on Americans as a "second front" to support the regime of Saddam Hussein.

But the war came and the terror did not. In the days leading up to the conflict, the American-led anti-terror coalition was even able to apprehend the No. 3 al-Qaeda leader and chief of its operations.

It is a remarkable fact, often overlooked by critics, that whatever may have happened to Osama bin Laden, there have been no successful terror attacks by al-Qaeda on Americans at home since 9/11. This is the strongest tribute possible to the aggressive strategy of the Bush administration, which has kept the terrorist enemy off balance and in disarray, and which is built on the perception that the war against terror and the war against regimes that harbor terrorists are one and the same.

But there is another front in the war against America that has not been so quiet. This is the war orchestrated by the anti-American left at home and abroad. While U.S. and British troops risk their lives to conduct a war of liberation remarkable in its effort to prevent civilian casualties on the other side, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators blocked traffic on American streets and tied up police, endangering civilian lives on our own.

In New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles and other cities across the country, activists are breaking the law in a manner calculated to cause economic disruption and urban chaos. In accord with the plans of the organizers, thousands of police, who are an integral element of Homeland Security defense, have been tied up attempting to prevent the activists from escalating their war at home to a level of serious violence.

This violence is coming. Molotov cocktails were confiscated in San Francisco, where an activist also took his own life in a fall from the Golden Gate Bridge. Thousands of law-breaking activists have been arrested. Abroad, where police are not so solicitous of rioters, several activists were killed.

It would be unwise not to take the threat posed by this organized attack on American policy and American security seriously. The misnamed "anti-war" movement is led and organized by leftist vanguards who proclaim their solidarity with terrorist states, including North Korea and Cuba, and terrorist organizations in the Middle East.

One banner raised by activists in San Francisco read "We Support Our Troops When They Shoot Their Officers." A photo of this banner is proudly portrayed on a leftist Web site that has played a key role in organizing the demonstrations (and is funded in part by a foundation headed by PBS commentator Bill Moyers). [http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/ 1_shoot_officers.jpg]

It took the anti-Vietnam movement five years to reach the levels of these anti-American demonstrations and another two to initiate real violence. When that line was crossed, there were more than a thousand domestic bombings, and at least one terrorist cult was launched.

The current movement is potentially far more dangerous. Unlike its anti-Vietnam predecessor, it is allied with terrorist solidarity groups and radical Muslim organizations active on college campuses. This increases the likelihood that its violent tendencies will intensify as the war against terror abroad continues. The prospect that it will develop its own terrorist offshoots is real.

Unlike the anti-Vietnam efforts, the current movement is driven almost entirely by hate for American institutions, policies and purposes ("Washington Is the Axis Of Evil," "America Is the Greatest Terrorist State," "No Blood for Oil"). It is not inspired by any hope – however illusory – in a utopian future in Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Socialism has been dead as a serious goal for the most of the left for decades. In its core, the left has always been a nihilistic and reactionary revolt against the modern world (capitalism, individualism, liberty), which is why it can ally itself so easily now with Islamo-fascists.

This means that the present leftist revival will not be deterred by an American victory in the current war. Its ranks are likely to grow and its tactics to become more radical as the general war on terror proceeds or should the war trigger problems in other Muslim countries. It will feed on the problems of the Iraqi peace, particularly if it is a troublesome peace, and it will continue its "anti-globalism" attacks on efforts to establish a prosperous and tranquil international order.

In its potential to disrupt American postwar policy and to limit the options of the American military lie the greatest dangers of this leftist revival, especially because of its deep resonances in the Democratic Party, half of whose constituents (and many of whose leaders) are opposed to the war.

The President has already warned that the effort to rebuilt Iraq, stabilize the region and carry on the war against terror "will require our sustained commitment." In order to sustain their security and foreign policy commitments, democracies require broad bipartisan support from their parties and from their publics.

It is this support that is threatened by the anti-American left, and it is this test that our nation must meet.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: blackshirts; communistsubversion; davidhorowitz; jihadinamerica; nobloodforoil; redcross; terrorwar; traitorlist; warlist

1 posted on 03/24/2003 3:48:47 PM PST by conservativecorner
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To: conservativecorner
While I think Horowitz is right that much of these antiwar protests are organized by radical communists and anarchists I think he overstates their propensity for real violence. Sure they caused a lot of damage at the WTO riots a couple of years ago. But I don't think smashing up some store fronts and tipping over a few cars is a major threat. David should calm down a little. He gives these jerk offs to much credit. Most are college drop out dope smokers- who read a Noam Chomsky book once. The most "succesful" among them work at Starbucks. They use their primitive leftist views to hide their own personal failures in life (they work as 28 year old bag boys becasue they "want to".)
2 posted on 03/24/2003 3:59:51 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: conservativecorner
A tiny bit "wordy" , but a helluva good read ! DH, as usual, hits the nail on the head !

I'd like to add my own comment: Every generation seems to become a bit infatuated with some version of Communism...and to wind up learning - often the hard way - that certain snakes are not meant to be handled.

3 posted on 03/24/2003 4:01:36 PM PST by genefromjersey (Save the last 6 for pall-bearers !)
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To: Burkeman1
Remember these clowns support ELF and ALF, very violence prone organizations.
4 posted on 03/24/2003 4:02:47 PM PST by dts32041 (Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a "4".)
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To: Burkeman1
500 San Francisco police spending their days babysitting semi-violent "protestors" are 500 police NOT guarding the Golden Gate Bridge, etc.

These jerks are running interference for Al Qaeda, period. In a time of war, I would treat them extremely harshly. No "in'n'out" arrest.

5 posted on 03/24/2003 4:04:00 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: dts32041
Yeah- but even those groups are more of an annoyannce than anything else. I just don't think these tattoed dope smoking slackers are a threat to anyone but themselves (as the idiot who fell from the bridge demonstrated.)
6 posted on 03/24/2003 4:05:54 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Travis McGee
You make a good point. I have long felt that "protestors" who break the law should not be just handslapped. They are criminals and should be treated as such. This goes for all protestors- whatever political persuasion. If you block a bridge or a street- no matter for what reason you should be arressted and prosecuted- not just fined.
7 posted on 03/24/2003 4:08:20 PM PST by Burkeman1
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Comment #8 Removed by Moderator

Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: Burkeman1
But it's MUCH worse in wartime when we are under threat of terrorist attack and we need all of our LEOs for homeland defense.

The protestors are now "diversionary troops" for Al Queda.

10 posted on 03/24/2003 4:12:41 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Travis McGee
I agree. While I don't think they represent a direct threat- their actions do indirectly support our enemies and they should therefore be stopped with aggressive prosecution.
11 posted on 03/24/2003 4:22:12 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: dts32041
You and DH are correct, the Unibomer,ELF,ALF,EWF,Greenpeace,Earth First and of course, PETA...All liberal...not 2 brain cells amongst them.
12 posted on 03/24/2003 4:25:54 PM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because your paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: genefromjersey
In its core, the left has always been a nihilistic and reactionary revolt against the modern world (capitalism, individualism, liberty), which is why it can ally itself so easily now with Islamo-fascists.

This sort of parallels my statement that what we call "Liberals" today are in fact ""conservatives". They promote keeping the status quo of the move to Socialism of the last century and the new International order. The real "Radicals" of the present are the movers and shakers of this Administration and their unacceptance of the tired old failed paradigms of the 20th Century.

13 posted on 03/24/2003 4:32:44 PM PST by L`enn
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To: Burkeman1
The Weathermen, the Bader-Meinhoff, The Red Guards, ELF, ALF
were all dismissed in the same manner at various times.

I have a history similar to David's; we are of an age. I remember when he became a non-person, overnight. I became one quite shortly afterwards for refusing to get involved in bombing a power substation.

What is not generally acknowledged about the economics of the anti-Americans is that many of them can count on inheritances from the grandparents or parents and more than anyone would guess have trust funds that they go to great lengths to keep secret. I have known very few cadre who were really *poor*. Some grow enough pot to live comfortably and only need a job to show some means of support. Any job will do.

Their cause is financed by the heirs of some of the wealthiest & best known names in American business history.

The violence is perpetrated by a handful, but they can count on help from the masses: money, safe houses, alibis, jobs, references, cars. Even years later, it is easy to guilt trip those who went back into society into being accessories in some manner.

People who have never been inside The Movement take these folks at face value. It is easy to underestimate them and they count on that.

They are very angry and focused. Usually, the leaders are not dopers.

I think he is dead on.
14 posted on 03/24/2003 4:40:12 PM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Burkeman1; Travis McGee
Listen to Travis.

It is an easy trap to look at the clowns and suppose them harmless.

Look instead to how the radical Islamists shape their own human tools, the parallel is remarkable.

We come into great danger of underestimating the resolve and the persistance of the communist mind shaping these punks. It continues through the other enabling fellow travelers as well, the enviros, etc.

These goofballs are already led into sedition and their violent behavior will increase even if it belies their pitiful wimplike existence.

The communist handlers will not change, will not relent. And they will be joined by their cohorts. They will not fade nor go away.
15 posted on 03/24/2003 4:40:35 PM PST by 8mmMauser (Un Done)
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To: reformedliberal
I don't think one can compare the ELF, ALF, or the anarchists up in Oregon to the Red Bridgades of Germany and Italy or the Weathermen or SLA in America in the 70's and 80's. To the best of my knowledge no one has been killed by any of these groups now in America. While I do want these groups stopped and long jail terms handed out (and they do seem to be getting more violent) I don't think they compare to the barbarism of left wing groups 20 or 30 years ago.
16 posted on 03/24/2003 4:45:17 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Burkeman1
From consumerfreedom.com

(Washington, February 12, 2002) - Richard Berman Transcript:

Mr. Chairman, Members of the Subcommittee, my name is Richard Berman. I am the Executive Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom, a nonprofit organization based in Washington, DC. The Center does not accept and has never received government funds.

On behalf of American restaurant operators and food producers, I would like to thank you for holding this hearing today. Eco-terrorism is indeed alive and well in the United States of America, and it shares a common heritage with violent animal-rights extremism. These radical movements have been responsible for well over 1,000 documented criminal acts in the U.S., most of which would be prosecuted as felonies if the perpetrators could be brought to justice.

I am not talking about peaceful protest, pickets, sign waving, slogan chanting, or forms of civil disobedience that are protected by the First Amendment. Rather, America's present environmental and animal-rights terrorists have committed arsons, assaults, vandalism on a massive scale, and a host of other property crimes that cripple food producers and resource providers, and occasionally lay waste to entire restaurants.

On September 11th of last year, on the very day America mourned the loss of thousands of lives to foreign terrorists, our own home-grown version (the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberation Front, known as "ELF" and "ALF") took joint credit for firebombing a McDonald's restaurant in Tucson, Arizona.

There is no doubt now, and the FBI concurs, that the Earth Liberation Front is associated with the Animal Liberation Front. Special Agent David Szady (now the U.S. counterintelligence executive) has told CNN that "by any sense or any definition, this is a true domestic terrorism group, that uses criminal activity to further their political agenda."

During the past three years alone, ELF and ALF have claimed responsibility for smashing bank windows, torching a chicken feed truck, burning a horse corral at a Bureau of Land Management facility, firebombing dealer lots full of sport utility vehicles, destroying valuable scientific laboratory equipment and many years worth of irreplaceable research documents, "spiking" trees in the Pacific Northwest, and even setting bombs under meat delivery trucks.

There should be no sympathy for intentionally committed felonies of this magnitude. Eco- terror and animal-rights crimes have become everyday events in America, yet they are among our most under-reported and least-punished offenses.

Members of the Subcommittee, on rare occasions the criminals responsible for these violent and unlawful acts are captured. Just two weeks ago a pair of animal-rights terrorists were sentenced to prison terms for attempting to blow up a dairy truck near San Jose, California. They were caught red-handed, with home-made bombs just as deadly as those being exploded by other terrorists in the Middle East. But the vast majority of crimes like these go unpunished. The underground ELF and ALF even have the gall to brag publicly about their felonies. ALF actually released a report in January, claiming responsibility for 137 crimes in 2001, and causing an estimated $17.3 million in damage.

ALF and ELF won't stop with damage to people and businesses with whom they disagree. Rather, they are aggressively recruiting new criminals to their vicious gang. Incredibly, the group's leaders have begun to distribute "how-to" manuals on the Internet, describing how to build bombs and incendiary devices, how to destroy fields of genetically- engineered food crops, and how to commit "arson," "thievery," and other felonies without leaving clues at the crime scene. There is even a volume on the easiest way to sink a ship.

Any 10-year-old with a computer can download much of this reading material. For a few dollars and the cost of postage, ALF "spokesperson" David Barbarash will mail the rest of the materials to anyone who asks. Mr. Chairman, I have submitted a copy of Mr. Barbarash's disturbing catalog for the record.

Equally troubling is the extent to which some eco-terrorists and animal-rights criminals have managed to garner support, both philosophical and financial, from above-ground activist organizations, including those that enjoy the same tax benefits as our nation's churches and universities.

Between 1994 and 1995, for instance, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals gave over $70,000 to an Animal Liberation Front criminal named Rodney Coronado, who was convicted of arson, a felony, in connection with the $1.7 million firebombing of a Michigan State University research facility. This amount, by the way, is more than ten times the total that the same organization (PETA) devoted to animal shelters during those two years. In addition, both PETA and its president, Ingrid Newkirk, are acknowledged financial supporters of an organization called No Compromise, which operates on behalf of, and for the "underground" supporters of the Animal Liberation Front.

PETA raised over $15 million last year from the general public, all of it tax-exempt. When will PETA be held accountable?

Another eco-criminal, Dave Foreman, pled guilty in 1991 to felony conspiracy in a plot to blow up the power lines of three nuclear power generating stations. Mr. Foreman was a co-founder of the radical "Earth First!" organization, the group from which the Earth Liberation Front split during a 1992 meeting in the United Kingdom. Among its other claims to fame, Earth First! actually published the newsletter articles (in the Earth First! Journal) from which "Unabomber" Ted Kaczinsky chose his last two victims.

An organization called the Ruckus Society was started by another Earth First! co-founder named Mike Roselle. This group was largely responsible for the 1999 anti-WTO protests in Seattle, which ended in mass rioting and the destruction of Starbucks and McDonald's restaurants. The Ruckus Society trains young activists in the techniques of "monkeywrenching" which, when applied, result in property crimes of enormous financial cost.

The Ruckus Society and the Rainforest Action Network (another outfit founded by Mr. Roselle) are tax-exempt organization that have enjoyed contributions from such mainstream sources as Ted Turner and Ben & Jerry's. When will this breeding ground for environmental criminals be held accountable?

Ruckus, by the way, also gets funding from a San Francisco outfit called the Tides Foundation, which distributes other foundations' money while shielding the identity of the actual donors. Our tax law permits this sort of money-laundering. If the public is prevented from learning where a tax-exempt organization like the Ruckus Society gets their money, then the legal loopholes that permit foundations like Tides to operate as it does should be closed.

Mr. Chairman, these are all serious charges that I am making, and I urge this Committee to fully investigate the damage that ALF, ELF, and other like-minded terrorist groups have caused to American businesses, American livelihoods, and the American psyche. I would also urge the appropriate Congressional committee to explore the tax-exempt status of groups that have helped to fund directly or indirectly these domestic terrorists.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this hearing.

17 posted on 03/24/2003 4:56:05 PM PST by Dutchgirl
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To: Burkeman1
Read the article again. Molotov Cocktails!

I don't know about you, but IMHO anyone gets hit or is close by when one is thown is gonna have a real bad day.
18 posted on 03/24/2003 4:59:29 PM PST by Area51
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To: Dutchgirl
Yes- I know they are freaks. But burning an SUV dealership and encouraging arson and theft is quite different from murdering scores of cops and civilians. The Weathermen for example planned to blow up an ROTC dance hall- but thankfully blew themselves up in their Greenwhich Village townhouse (the explosion was so powerful they only found bits of flesh and a few teeth of the terrorists inside.)
19 posted on 03/24/2003 5:01:13 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Area51
If they use molotoc cocktails that is assault with a deadly weapon at least and could be attempted murder. It is serious jailtime for anyone who uses a fire bomb.
20 posted on 03/24/2003 5:05:47 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Travis McGee
The protestors are now "diversionary troops" for Al Queda.

Do I need a hunting license? Are there quotas or bag limits?

21 posted on 03/24/2003 5:22:37 PM PST by wardaddy
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To: reformedliberal
"They are very angry and focused. Usually, the leaders are not dopers."

Thanks for confirming the reality of the "anti-war" left.

Those in the streets might be the long-haired, dope-smoking maggot-infested "useful idiots". Or they might be the terminally naive. But those who manipulate them are anything but.

22 posted on 03/24/2003 5:27:06 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media: IGNORANCE ON PARADE.)
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To: conservativecorner
bttt
23 posted on 03/24/2003 5:27:45 PM PST by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Burkeman1
Why do you suppose they wanted to learn how to sink a boat?Why are these people interested in our food supply?

Over the Christmas break, I had to hep my son with his 6th grade history project on the Rights and Responsibilities of a Nazi. His big question was how did their society get to that point? that people could be abused on the street for their race and ideas.

Some of the thing I see going on out in the "tolerant" left coast and on college campi are pretty frightening. Its "okay' to blow up the SUV?, it's ok to plant spikes in a tree to harm a logger? Did you notice this line?
Among its other claims to fame, Earth First! actually published the newsletter articles (in the Earth First! Journal) from which "Unabomber" Ted Kaczinsky chose his last two victims. Look at the security DH needs because of DEATH THREATS because he dares to expose and denounce them.

One of the reasons I like Free Republic is that Freepers aren't passive or uninformed.

24 posted on 03/24/2003 5:29:59 PM PST by Dutchgirl
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To: skinkinthegrass
"...Unibomber,ELF,ALF,EWF,Greenpeace,Earth First and of course, PETA...All liberal..."

I would say not all "liberal" but all LEFTIST and/or Nazi types. It is too nice to call Leftists "liberal". There are "liberals" in this world, and I would define them politically as the so called "moderates" of either of our two major political parties here in the U.S. "Liberal" and/or "Moderate" means, "we who can't make a meaningful decision" - "we sit on the fence and can't move, but sometimes we vote with the left and sometimes we vote with the conservatives, but either way, only with much compromising, because it is only with much compromising that we can make our non-decisions."

Liberals/Moderates may actually be the worst kind of public office holder, because their vascilations usually lean them to the wrong side in their non-decision making process. They often present themselves to the electorate in an untruthful way because of their chameleon-like characteristics.

In our political scheme of things, "Democrat" or "Republican" often does not define between "Left" and "Right" - both parties have conservative members, and both parties have those that are on the left. Moderates may be associated with either party, but Moderates in the Republican party are more dangerous, because this is where the "RINO" generally comes from politically. For some reason it is politically expedient for them to wear a Republican tag, while they are more likely to oppose that which is generally conservative.

I know I have just expounded on an area in the political arena usually avoided by the "experts" so all you "experts" out there on this subject matter, flame away - I am wearing protective gear.
25 posted on 03/24/2003 6:45:36 PM PST by GGpaX4DumpedTea
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To: Burkeman1
Before you dismiss the Left radicals as a bunch of zoned out loonies, keep in mind that they managed to get hundreds of thousand of their sympathizers out on the streets of our cities. These were not flower people blowing pot fumes and passing out daisies. They were committed radicals who inhabit the fever swamps of the far left.

The great monsters of the 20th century were once a small cadre, a handful of committed devils who had visions of power. And they took power largely through street demonstrations. That is really how the Third Reich was founded. Ditto for the Soviet Union.

And, as reformedliberal testifies, they have access to financial resources. One doesn’t stage a rally for 200,000 people with free e-mails and word-of-mouth. There are substantial foundations, individuals and even governments providing financing to this movement.
26 posted on 03/24/2003 7:06:37 PM PST by moneyrunner
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To: Burkeman1; 8mmMauser; reformedliberal
These current street fighters are the ones who will be providing the safe houses and documents and transportation and cache support.

We have seen this too many times in the 20th century to dismiss them.

I hope our FLEAs are taking lots of pictures and building the matrices now, for use later.

27 posted on 03/24/2003 7:10:11 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: Burkeman1
I don't think smashing up some store fronts and tipping over a few cars is a major threat.

A major threat? Maybe not, but it is major-league vandalism. These idiots must be punished to the full extent the law allows.

They have no right to smash those storefronts anymore than they would to smash your home.

28 posted on 03/24/2003 7:10:31 PM PST by LibKill (The UN is of less use than dog doo in the gutter.)
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To: wardaddy
Ultra high velocity HPs don't leave enough for ballistics.
29 posted on 03/24/2003 7:11:24 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea; Dutchgirl; moneyrunner
Anyone who dismisses these street thugs does not know history.

The current German foreign minister is a crypto Stalinist who was a support cell member for the BM Gang and the RAF. Members of Fatah stayed in his apartment before and after they attacked the Vienna OPEC meeting, killing many.

Our current crop of street thugs are the same as him.

30 posted on 03/24/2003 7:15:08 PM PST by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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Comment #31 Removed by Moderator

To: Travis McGee
Yes- there is a danger they could grow more radical as we saw in the 60's when radical Left Wing but for the most part peaceful organizations were taken over by hard core violent revolutionaries. But don't expect the FBI to be monitoring those groups now. They got their hands slapped in the 70's and all but stopped monitoring hard left radical groups (excpet they contiued to look for fugitives). The FBI is too consumed with infiltrating the "militia" groups- to the extent that some have said there are more FBI agents and informants in the militias than real members.
32 posted on 03/24/2003 7:29:58 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Burkeman1
Yeah- but even those groups are more of an annoyannce than anything else. I just don't think these tattoed dope smoking slackers are a threat to anyone but themselves (as the idiot who fell from the bridge demonstrated.)


Are you blind? David H. is giving us a huge wake-up call, because he knows, he was with-in the groups like these. I take him seriously.
33 posted on 03/24/2003 7:35:26 PM PST by Ethyl
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To: Ethyl
I am not blind. I just think these groups haven't reached the stage of threat that we had when the Weathermen, black panthers, and the SLA were blowing things up, assassinating politicians and killing cops. But even then they were a pathetic group of sickos who never presented a serious challenge to the security of the nation (and Horowitz himself said this in his book "Destructive Generation".) Can these groups become more dangerous? Yes. Should they be nipped in the bud now? Yes. But I think Horowitz has allowed the emotion of the times and his own past inflate these clowns to a level of alarm they don't deserve.
34 posted on 03/24/2003 7:41:30 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: way2go
I actually have bumped into a few of these clowns. I never let them know I am a conservative but engage them in a Q&A. I have found that these guys have cult like beliefs in a couple of Left Wing authors and nothing else. They are what I call half educated. They read Noam Chomsky and a few others and absolutley nothing else. I ask them if they have read a conservative author like Burke or Adma Smith. Never even heard of them. They are not "Free thinkers" at all- but cultists. I have never met more narrow minded and less well read people. Another big clue in- few have any religious belief and were exposed to none as children and almost all are from divorced families.
35 posted on 03/24/2003 7:48:23 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: Travis McGee
Wow...I knew he was dirty but not that dirty.

The Germans have sort of lost their mind in their collective pursuit to erase their past.
36 posted on 03/24/2003 8:31:11 PM PST by wardaddy
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To: Travis McGee
Ughh- I am all too aware of the past of the German foreign minister. Almost unbelievable - but then again I believe the French were double dealing us all throughout the Cold War to the Soviets.
37 posted on 03/24/2003 8:44:16 PM PST by Burkeman1
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To: conservativecorner
This article touches but not explore the basic problem that the United States of America is a divided nation. On one side, we have those who desire the strong, healthy nation based on the principles given to us by our Founding Fathers and generally upheld by our government for many years. The best expression of this side was the Republican victory in the 1994 Congressional elections. On the other side, we have those who want to make us into a kind of fascist/communist country like what the early communists wanted the Soviet Union to be. The clearest expression of this side is Bill Clinton. Between these two sides is an apathetic public that doesn't see this struggle. They will swing from one side to another based on half-truths presented by the media.

I don't how to do it, but if we want the USA to remain the great country that we've come to know and love, we must crush the side represented by Bill Clinton and the protestors. Those who are not so corrupted that they can't be changed must be shown that what they support is evil, and they must reject it. The others must be made so unwelcome that they leave this country.

WFTR
Bill

38 posted on 03/24/2003 10:19:22 PM PST by WFTR (Liberty isn't for cowards)
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To: Burkeman1
I have found that these guys have cult like beliefs in a couple of Left Wing authors and nothing else. They are what I call half educated. They read Noam Chomsky and a few others and absolutley nothing else. I ask them if they have read a conservative author like Burke or Adma Smith. Never even heard of them. They are not "Free thinkers" at all- but cultists. I have never met more narrow minded and less well read people.

You have described them exactly. I know some of them VERY well - family members who have been to federal prison for sabatogue. They 've had one idea in their life and they've been milking it for 40 years.

What makes these people dangerous now is their affinity for Islamic extremists.

39 posted on 03/25/2003 12:04:46 AM PST by happygrl
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: Burkeman1
I have found that these guys have cult like beliefs in a couple of Left Wing authors and
nothing else.




This is a great description of the rank & file. As in any cult, there is a necessary gap in the perceptions of the leaders and those of the masses.

What happened in the 70's was that after they didn't get their way thru marches, propaganda, intimidation and *trashing*, some escalated into more serious crime. Once someone is marginalized by several arrests, their anger and frustration can be exploited into kidnapping and armed robbery. Prison can be as much a sort of mark of achievement in some circles as a deterrant. I recall average middle class youths in their 20's speaking in hushed tones of awe of those who had been in Nam and acquired skill sets that would help the revolution, even after protesting the war in terms of immorality.

In any revolution, there are layers of operatives. Those who are cadre are quite satisfied to see the movement marginalized in the early stages. They intend to exploit those who end up w/nothing left to tie them to law-abiding society. In the already controlled mind, it isn't hard to get people to see this present Administration as the ultimate in all evil and then switch that hatred to those who support them and eventually to the idea of America itself.

It is interesting that Bush and Blair are both men of faith.
While liberal Jews and Christians have been recruited to the propaganda/human shield POV and actions, there is a visceral disgust on the Left for anyone w/an exoteric (external authority)faith. Notice that esoteric (inner authority or *I am god*)beliefs are encouraged by the destabilizers on the Left. This present incarnation of the revolution has made W and Tony into icons on which the crowds can focus.

Just don't dismiss these folks. IIRC, Arafat had a hand in the training of B-M and the Red Guards (may not have been both). There has been lots of discussion on FR of the NAZI/Soviet links of the Islamofacists and the last generation of revolutionaries. I see a real difference in the present crowd of warm bodies: these present ones are better organized, more serious, and are eager to be arrested. They are not as acculturated to the middle class American values as were those of us 30 years ago. Once someone has justified tree-spiking and fire-bombing in the name of Gaia and has already elevated population-reduction to an article of faith, how far are they from murder in the name of the revolution? The cadre doesn't expect to get everyone to become that radicalized and everyone isn't needed as long as 10% or so is sympathetic to the ultimate goal.

I have spoken to several of these current young *idealists* and one thing that struck me was that all have said they have no problem with the ideologies of the organizers, as long as they all have the same goal. Unlike the experience of some in this discussion, the ones I spoke to have university degrees; one is an employed organic chemist in a large East Coast pharmaceutical firm, for example. Another has a degree in Historic Preservation (this is a degree??) and works for a large architectural firm. I have known her since before she was born and we were close up until she went to college. Since I told her my perceptions of her movement and political beliefs, she has ignored me in social gatherings, even when we were face-to-face. It was chilling and her message was clear: don't confuse them w/the facts and expect them to disengage if you try to break thru the cult control.


41 posted on 03/25/2003 4:28:28 AM PST by reformedliberal
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To: Burkeman1; Travis McGee
Burkeman,

I appreciate your perspective. It is like the one I carried as a conservative at the U. of Oregon way back in the late '50's. It was already turning hard left and my role models on the right were such as classmate Neil Goldschmidt and my brother's wrestling partner, super Joe College Ken Kesey.

I thought it was "cool" to go see Gus Hall come speak. Wow, real freedom of speech! (CPUSA) Harmless guy fer sure.

Those of the "beat generation" appearing on the left bore a startling similarity to me then as this gaggle bears to you now, sort of harmless.

You may have missed my earlier point. I issue a caution you should pick up on.

The leaders, handlers of the clowns are "natural born killers". They are committed to the long haul, the destruction of our society and are relentless in their push from many similar fronts. Downplay these clowns as you may and you will find them no different than the innocent looking surrendering Iraqis in civilian clothes, their handlers waiting to kill you soon as you extend a hand of charity.

First define your enemy. These are the clueless footsoldiers of a hardened central core. Never, ever, ever underestimate the real enemy.

Nothing is new here, only the faces and the superficial. The relentless drive has continued in the rhythm of the communist dialectic throughout the decades. I realize by your age you have not yet seen the repetition but strongly advise you take it from those who have been there.
42 posted on 03/25/2003 4:38:36 AM PST by 8mmMauser
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To: GGpaX4DumpedTea
I perfer the terms conser. or Liberal...blue or green...no brown,regardless of party label...to hell w/moderates..."dead skunks,in the middle of the road,"
43 posted on 03/25/2003 5:29:01 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (Just because your paranoid,doesn't mean they aren't out to get you. :)
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To: conservativecorner

This makes my blood boil!

44 posted on 03/27/2003 2:24:25 PM PST by Free2Be49
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