Frum, National Review, et al (Neocons) vs. Novak, Buchanan, et al (Paleos) Articles Thread

various | 3/28/2003 | Pyro7480

[Pyro7480]

Here is a list of recent threads related to the current hot debate between the so-called "neoconservatives" or as some call them, "Canadian conservatives," and the so-called "paleoconservatives." This debate all started with an article from National Review by David Frum titled "Unpatriotic Conservatives."

Unpatriotic Conservatives by David Frum

Unpatriotic Conservatives: A war against America.

When the shooting starts (Novak responds to Frum)

Robert Novak: Wrong, But Still a Patriot: David Frum's analysis of Bob Novak went too far by David Keene

The Right Thing (ACU's Keene slams Frum over NR article)

WHICH SIDE ARE YOU ON? [Neocon / Paleocon respones to Frum's "Unpatriotic Conservatives"]

Canadian Conservatives: An Odd and Very Peculiar Species.

National Review's Anathema Corner

If you haven't gotten in on the "fun" yet, now you have a central source for all the threads.

[WaterDragon]

"I think all of the labeling is utter BS"

I think so, too.

[dcwusmc]

Bump for the common sense that frum lacks.

[Burkeman1]

Just because you're against fighting a series of foreign wars against any WMD-dictator we don't like, doesn't mean you have to be an idiot who believes in putting all your money into cash and gold. It doesn't mean that you have to argue for a "culturally pure" America either.

Very well said. Being a conservative is an attitude- not an ideology. I think one should dismiss Frum and sadly- National Review- as hopelessly in the grips of a rather narrow strain of ideolouges.

[The Old Hoosier]

But why the hell did we get involved in Kosovo? We had no business there whatsoever! At best, we added six months to the life of his regime by flaring up nationalist sentiment, and then we helped a group of heroin-dealing pimp terrorists--the KLA--get a foothold in surrounding countries like Macedonia.

[homeagain balkansvet]

Two words: Overthrow Milosevic. We had no idea that we would provoke him into attempted genocide, but then he went ahead and obliged us.

It worked, too. Took a year, but it worked. Now he's gone. Problem of course is that we have traded him for the Kosovar "problem" (i.e., trying to get them and the Serbs in Kosova to get along while preparing for inevitable independence from Serbia).

Oh, and the first person to correct my spelling gets the following message: You lost, deal with it.

[The Old Hoosier]

I didn't say anything about the genocide that allegedly started with the war--which we still, by the way, don't have evidence to show happened.

All I know is, we came into a brutal war, filled with atrocity on both sides, and we came in on the side of the Muslim terrorists. We never should have gotten involved in that dirty little fight. All we did was help the terrorists in the KLA so that they could start another uprising, this time in peaceful Macedonia. And don't think they aren't linked to al Qaeda.

Thank you Bill Clinton.

[The Old Hoosier]

Milosevic was finally out because people voted against him, and definitely no thanks to us at all. Our war on him only served to increase his popularity, temporarily.

Thank you for serving our country, but your service, sadly, was directed by a very evil and misguided man in search of a legacy. Our military should never be used that way.

[homeagain balkansvet]

There is no moral difference between Kosovo and Iraq. Support one means you must support the other, for the ends and the means are the same.

Deal with it, my friend. We decided that the US military must be used to end threats to the peace. They were used so.

As for Clinton, his intervention into Bosnia and Kosovo were the *ONLY* things he did right in 8 years. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[homeagain balkansvet]

Milosevic was finally out because people voted against him, and definitely no thanks to us at all. Our war on him only served to increase his popularity, temporarily.>>

That's not true at ALL! What happened is that the post war economic collapse killed his popularity, and he felt it necessary to call elections early, elections that he thought he could win. He lost them unexpectedly, and not sits in the Hague where he awaits justice. And soon, so, his killer wife.

[The Old Hoosier]

There is no moral difference between Kosovo and Iraq. Support one means you must support the other, for the ends and the means are the same.

This has to be one of the most simple-minded things I've ever read. No one ever argued that Milosevic posed a threat to the United States--the alleged reason for our presence in Iraq. Is it too much to fathom that some wars against evil dictators are in our national interest, and some are not?

I have loyally opposed both wars. But I don't think it would necessarily be inconsistent to oppose Kosovo and support Iraq, if you've fallen for what Bush says about Iraq's connection to Muslim terrorists.

[Burkeman1]

Paleo and Neo? What the heck is that? I am against this war in Iraq but does that make me a confederate sympathizer? NO! I am can't stand these labels.