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What Does a "Thumbs Up" Mean in Iraq?
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| March 28, 2003, at 12:51 PM PT
| Brendan I. Koerner
Posted on 03/29/2003 11:13:31 AM PST by gitmo
Iraqis are giving passing Americans the "thumbs up" sign, which the troops interpret as a symbol of support. But many veteran travelers insist that the gesture is a crass Middle Eastern insult. How should coalition forces take those skyward thumbs?
Depends on how media savvy those Iraqi bystanders may be. It's true that "thumbs up" traditionally translates as the foulest of Iraqi insultsthe most straightforward interpretation is "Up yours, pal!" The sign has a similarly pejorative meaning in parts of West Africa, Russia, Australia, Iran, Greece, and Sardinia, according to Roger E. Axtell's book Gestures: The Do's and Taboos of Body Language Around the World. So, it's possible that the ostensibly cheering Iraqis are, in fact, silently voicing their displeasure.
But it's also possible that they understand the Western meaning of upturned thumbs, an explanation that the Army's Defense Language Institute subscribes to. According to a recent DLI manual on international gestures, after the first Gulf War "Middle Easterners of the Arabian Peninsula adopted this hand movement, along with the OK sign, as a symbol of cooperation toward freedom." Iraqi civilians may have noted this shifting meaning, perhaps via TV reports.
How the thumbs up became an upbeat gesture in the first place is something of a mystery. Legend has it that the signal dates back to Roman gladiatorial contests. A beaten combatant could supposedly be saved from a death blow if the emperor gave the thumbs up; a thumbs down was tantamount to an execution order. Though a favorite of Hollywood "swords and sandals" epics, this explanation has been completely debunked in recent years. In 1997, University of Kansas classics professor Anthony Philip Corbeill concluded that the thumbs up actually meant "Kill him," basing his assertion on a study of hundreds of ancient artworks. Instead, he wrote, a closed fist with a wraparound thumb was the indication for a gladiator's life to be spared.
No one's quite sure about where the positive American connotation comes from, though a good guess ascribes it to an English symbol of agreement. Desmond Morris' Gestures: Their Origins and Distribution traces the practice back to a medieval custom used to seal business transactions. The two involved parties would lick their thumbs, hold them erect, then smush them together. Over time, the mere sight of an upraised thumb came to symbolize harmony and kind feelings.
The gesture's popularization in America is generally attributed to the practices of World War II pilots, who used the thumbs up to communicate with ground crews prior to take-off. American GIs are reputed to have picked up on the thumb and spread it throughout Europe as they marched toward Berlin.
TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: iraq; liberation; thumbsup; war
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Thumbs up.
1
posted on
03/29/2003 11:13:31 AM PST
by
gitmo
To: gitmo; Trajan88
Gig'em
To: gitmo
I saw an Iraqi lady on the BaBa WaWa show last night giving the okay sign.
3
posted on
03/29/2003 11:16:00 AM PST
by
beaversmom
(After the Axis of Evil on to the Axis of Weasels)
To: gitmo
The gesture's popularization in America is generally attributed to the practices of World War II pilots, who used the thumbs up to communicate with ground crews prior to take-off. American GIs are reputed to have picked up on the thumb and spread it throughout Europe as they marched toward Berlin. Watch for the French to outlaw giving the thumbs up because it constitutes American handsign imperialism.
To: vbmoneyspender
Watch for the French to outlaw giving the thumbs up because it constitutes American handsign imperialism.in france, it means "i'm out of toilet paper." it is employed there only by the minority who have heard of the product.
dep
5
posted on
03/29/2003 11:24:34 AM PST
by
dep
To: gitmo
It's true that "thumbs up" traditionally translates as the foulest of Iraqi insultsthe most straightforward interpretation is "Up yours, pal!" Hmmmm... we use the longest finger on our hand, while the Iraqis use the short thumb... I wonder what Mr. Freud would say about that? :-)
6
posted on
03/29/2003 11:24:56 AM PST
by
mwyounce
To: gitmo
It means, "I am a proctologist!"
7
posted on
03/29/2003 11:26:47 AM PST
by
error99
("I believe stupidity should hurt."...used by permission from null and void all copyrights apply...)
To: gitmo
How about the "V" sign? I've seen quite a few LIPs flashing that gesture to our troops. Does it mean "Peace", or "Victory"? If "Victory," whose?
8
posted on
03/29/2003 11:26:57 AM PST
by
RemainCALM
(Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur.)
To: mwyounce
Hmmmm... we use the longest finger on our hand, while the Iraqis use the short thumb... I wonder what Mr. Freud would say about that? :-)That we have larger cigars?
To: gitmo
Good question.
I remember reading -- somewhere -- that contrary to popular understanding, a "thumbs down" from the Roman emperor to a gladiator really meant "spare him," whereas a "thumbs up" meant "kill him." I have no idea whether this is fact or myth.
To: gitmo
I think we should as Fonzi
11
posted on
03/29/2003 11:32:47 AM PST
by
bethelgrad
(for God and country)
To: gitmo
I think we should ask Fonzi
12
posted on
03/29/2003 11:33:00 AM PST
by
bethelgrad
(for God and country)
To: gitmo
A beaten combatant could supposedly be saved from a death blow if the emperor gave the thumbs up; a thumbs down was tantamount to an execution order. It was exactly the opposite. Thumbs down met drop the sword and free the person, thumbs up met raise the sword and strike the person.
To: southernnorthcarolina
for the roman empire, that is true.. and to the post up top...I really don't think this guy in a liberated town is saying "Up yours"
To: southernnorthcarolina
We sure twisted that one around. I use thumbs down to mean no good or reject.
15
posted on
03/29/2003 11:36:58 AM PST
by
TheLion
To: MosesKnows
Wrong- that didn't happen either. The gesture was a thumb pointed to the neck in imitation of the final death blow that a gladiator would recieve. Up and down gestures were never made.
16
posted on
03/29/2003 11:37:20 AM PST
by
Burkeman1
(i)
To: gitmo
It has universal significance.
17
posted on
03/29/2003 11:38:08 AM PST
by
PhilDragoo
(Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
To: mwyounce
"Sometimes a finger is just a finger."
To: gitmo
I've been looking for a place to post these! :>)
Q: What is the Iraqi air force motto?
A: I came, I saw, Iran.
Q: Have you heard about the new Iraqi air force exercise program?
A: Each morning you raise your hands above your head and leave them there.
Q: What's the five-day forecast for Baghdad?
A: Two days.
Q: What do Miss Muffet and Saddam Hussein have in common?
A: They both have Kurds in their way.
Q: What is the best Iraqi job?
A: Foreign ambassador.
Q: Did you hear that it is twice as easy to train Iraqi fighter pilots?
A: You only have to teach them to take off.
Q: How do you play Iraqi bingo?
A: B-52 ... F-16 ... B-52
Q: What is Iraq's national bird?
A: Duck.
Q: What do Saddam Hussein and General Custer have in common?
A: They both want to know where the heck those Tomahawks are coming from!
Q: Why does the Iraqi navy have glass bottom boats?
A: So they can see their air force.
19
posted on
03/29/2003 11:45:10 AM PST
by
steplock
( http://www.spadata.com)
To: gitmo
In Greece at least the only ones who follow the deragatory view of thumbs up are arab imigrants. (usualy from former yougoslavia) Thumbs up is equal to ok.
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