What Does a "Thumbs Up" Mean in Iraq?

Slate ^ | March 28, 2003, at 12:51 PM PT | Brendan I. Koerner

[gitmo]

Iraqis are giving passing Americans the "thumbs up" sign, which the troops interpret as a symbol of support. But many veteran travelers insist that the gesture is a crass Middle Eastern insult. How should coalition forces take those skyward thumbs?

Depends on how media savvy those Iraqi bystanders may be. It's true that "thumbs up" traditionally translates as the foulest of Iraqi insults—the most straightforward interpretation is "Up yours, pal!" The sign has a similarly pejorative meaning in parts of West Africa, Russia, Australia, Iran, Greece, and Sardinia, according to Roger E. Axtell's book Gestures: The Do's and Taboos of Body Language Around the World. So, it's possible that the ostensibly cheering Iraqis are, in fact, silently voicing their displeasure.

But it's also possible that they understand the Western meaning of upturned thumbs, an explanation that the Army's Defense Language Institute subscribes to. According to a recent DLI manual on international gestures, after the first Gulf War "Middle Easterners of the Arabian Peninsula adopted this hand movement, along with the OK sign, as a symbol of cooperation toward freedom." Iraqi civilians may have noted this shifting meaning, perhaps via TV reports.

How the thumbs up became an upbeat gesture in the first place is something of a mystery. Legend has it that the signal dates back to Roman gladiatorial contests. A beaten combatant could supposedly be saved from a death blow if the emperor gave the thumbs up; a thumbs down was tantamount to an execution order. Though a favorite of Hollywood "swords and sandals" epics, this explanation has been completely debunked in recent years. In 1997, University of Kansas classics professor Anthony Philip Corbeill concluded that the thumbs up actually meant "Kill him," basing his assertion on a study of hundreds of ancient artworks. Instead, he wrote, a closed fist with a wraparound thumb was the indication for a gladiator's life to be spared.

No one's quite sure about where the positive American connotation comes from, though a good guess ascribes it to an English symbol of agreement. Desmond Morris' Gestures: Their Origins and Distribution traces the practice back to a medieval custom used to seal business transactions. The two involved parties would lick their thumbs, hold them erect, then smush them together. Over time, the mere sight of an upraised thumb came to symbolize harmony and kind feelings.

The gesture's popularization in America is generally attributed to the practices of World War II pilots, who used the thumbs up to communicate with ground crews prior to take-off. American GIs are reputed to have picked up on the thumb and spread it throughout Europe as they marched toward Berlin.

[gitmo]

Thumbs up.

[Paleo Conservative]

Gig'em

[beaversmom]

I saw an Iraqi lady on the BaBa WaWa show last night giving the okay sign.

[vbmoneyspender]

The gesture's popularization in America is generally attributed to the practices of World War II pilots, who used the thumbs up to communicate with ground crews prior to take-off. American GIs are reputed to have picked up on the thumb and spread it throughout Europe as they marched toward Berlin.

Watch for the French to outlaw giving the thumbs up because it constitutes American handsign imperialism.

[dep]

Watch for the French to outlaw giving the thumbs up because it constitutes American handsign imperialism.

in france, it means "i'm out of toilet paper." it is employed there only by the minority who have heard of the product.

dep

[mwyounce]

It's true that "thumbs up" traditionally translates as the foulest of Iraqi insults—the most straightforward interpretation is "Up yours, pal!"

Hmmmm... we use the longest finger on our hand, while the Iraqis use the short thumb... I wonder what Mr. Freud would say about that? :-)

[error99]

It means, "I am a proctologist!"

[RemainCALM]

How about the "V" sign? I've seen quite a few LIPs flashing that gesture to our troops. Does it mean "Peace", or "Victory"? If "Victory," whose?

[eddie willers]

Hmmmm... we use the longest finger on our hand, while the Iraqis use the short thumb... I wonder what Mr. Freud would say about that? :-)

That we have larger cigars?

[southernnorthcarolina]

Good question.

I remember reading -- somewhere -- that contrary to popular understanding, a "thumbs down" from the Roman emperor to a gladiator really meant "spare him," whereas a "thumbs up" meant "kill him." I have no idea whether this is fact or myth.

[bethelgrad]

I think we should as Fonzi

[bethelgrad]

I think we should ask Fonzi

[MosesKnows]

A beaten combatant could supposedly be saved from a death blow if the emperor gave the thumbs up; a thumbs down was tantamount to an execution order.

It was exactly the opposite. Thumbs down met drop the sword and free the person, thumbs up met raise the sword and strike the person.

[Capitalism2003]

for the roman empire, that is true.. and to the post up top...I really don't think this guy in a liberated town is saying "Up yours"

[TheLion]

We sure twisted that one around. I use thumbs down to mean no good or reject.

[Burkeman1]

Wrong- that didn't happen either. The gesture was a thumb pointed to the neck in imitation of the final death blow that a gladiator would recieve. Up and down gestures were never made.

[PhilDragoo]

It has universal significance.

[Stay the course]

"Sometimes a finger is just a finger."

[steplock]

I've been looking for a place to post these! :>)

Q: What is the Iraqi air force motto?
A: I came, I saw, Iran.

Q: Have you heard about the new Iraqi air force exercise program?
A: Each morning you raise your hands above your head and leave them there.

Q: What's the five-day forecast for Baghdad?
A: Two days.

Q: What do Miss Muffet and Saddam Hussein have in common?
A: They both have Kurds in their way.

Q: What is the best Iraqi job?
A: Foreign ambassador.

Q: Did you hear that it is twice as easy to train Iraqi fighter pilots?
A: You only have to teach them to take off.

Q: How do you play Iraqi bingo?
A: B-52 ... F-16 ... B-52

Q: What is Iraq's national bird?
A: Duck.

Q: What do Saddam Hussein and General Custer have in common?
A: They both want to know where the heck those Tomahawks are coming from!

Q: Why does the Iraqi navy have glass bottom boats?
A: So they can see their air force.

[longtermmemmory]

In Greece at least the only ones who follow the deragatory view of thumbs up are arab imigrants. (usualy from former yougoslavia) Thumbs up is equal to ok.

[tiki]

It means peace accomplished by an American victory?

[talleyman]

LOL!

P.S. - regarding the thumbs-up issue- I believe the polite thing to do is to return the gesture.

[struwwelpeter]

[SevenDaysInMay]

GW uses the Gig 'em gesture. Up yours, Saddamn!

FYI, crass derives from obnoxious display or dispicable behavior of wealth. As I recall, Rome's Marcus Licinius Crassus and his hired arsonist, fee driven fire department's key to obscene, "over night" wealth.

[Howlin]

I saw her, too. She used the thumbs up while she was sahing "Good.....Booooosh."

It was great.

[disclaimer]

[longtermmemmory]

Now if only we could get GWB to do a Victory symbol gesture, that would be one for the ages.


V

[Cicero]

Or they could just be trying to hitch a ride to the next town.

[stlnative]

Warm reception for Marines as they cross Iraqi desert

But these villagers at least did not look afraid. If anything they might have been a little confused, not knowing the best way to greet the Americans. They waved, then taking a cue from the Marines, tried to imitate the thumbs-up sign.

[stlnative]

Here is bunch of insight into the Thumbs Up

Thumbs up- This gesture, expressing connotations of "I am winning," historically is offensive to many Arabs. After the Gulf conflict, however, Middle Easterners of the Arabian Peninsula adopted this hand movement, along with the OK sign, as a symbol of cooperation toward freedom.

[arasina]

I notice the picture selected for use in this original article is a man who looks defiant and is giving the thumbs up sign. However, in photos I have seen posted here (including the example included in this particular thread) the people are smiling and giving the thumbs up sign.

Obviously, the first guy is giving his "thumbs up" for Saddam Hussein. I wonder why Slate chose that photo to accompany their analysis of the gesture?

[PoisedWoman]

I love the freeper humor on this thread! cackle cackle

[NMFXSTC]

Or return the gesture via 5.56???????

[Mr_Magoo]

Thumbs up means I am getting a Dell?

[Mr_Magoo]

How about the "V" sign? I've seen quite a few LIPs flashing that gesture to our troops. Does it mean "Peace", or "Victory"?

According to Paul Stooky(of Peter,Paul, and Mary fame), neither.It started in WWII with Winston Churchill. Churchill smoked big cigars. That open V was where he held the cigar. When he flashed the open V he was in fact asking "Wanna drag?"

[FourPeas]

Fascinating reading. So, basically, we have no idea what the Iraqis mean when they give us the thumbs up.

[southernnorthcarolina]

So, basically, we have no idea what the Iraqis mean when they give us the thumbs up.

You got it.

[gitmo]

Or a Hellfire.

[Happygal]

in france, it means "i'm out of toilet paper."

DAMN! You've just made me spit coffee on the computer screen!

[SevenDaysInMay]

Is that V overhand or underhand, as in the English Agincourt salute to the French?