Bush: 'We are committed to the Road Map'

Jerusalem Post ^ | Apr. 8, 2003

[Asher]

Apr. 8, 2003

Bush: 'We are committed to the Road Map'

By THE JERUSALEM POST INTERNET STAFF

President George W. Bush said Tuesday that the US and Britain "are committed to the Road Map toward peace."

Speaking at a joint news conference with British Prime Minister Tony Blair in Hillsborough, Northern Ireland, Bush added: "Now this process must be carried forward."

Moments earlier Blair also reaffirmed Britain's commitment to the plan, which calls for achieving Palestinian statehood by 2005.

"It's a hopeful time. I believe we can make progress," Bush said.

Bush further said he is pleased with the designated Palestinian premier Mahmoud Abbas.

[E Rocc]

The two wars on terror are the same.

Not really. Al Qaeda has embraced the Palestinian rejectionist viewpoint as one of its causes. This does not mean that all Palestinians should be grouped with them, any more than all affirmative action opponents should be grouped with the Klan. The justice of a cause should not be defined by the worst of its proponents.

Supporters of the hard core Israeli right try to blur these lines in order to promote their cause. It doesn't fly in mainstream Israeli circles (even Sharon has backed down from it), and its becoming less and less accepted around here.

-Eric

[bvw]

Do you think God might have set the borders of Israel, pretty clearly -- in the Bible -- for some reason? Or do you think God is some will-of-the-whisp, sometimes thinking this, somethimes thinking that, and changing His mind about things that He once claimed as perpetual?

[bvw]

Are you wankish?

[honway]

Do you think God might have set the borders of Israel, pretty clearly

Based on your interpretation, could you please define the borders of Israel defined by God?

[bvw]

So, you ARE wankish!

[bvw]

The West Bank -- that's clear enough, no? And Jerusalem too, eh? Those parts are laid out clear enough, in that Book. The cities, Jerusalem, Hebron by name, the Jordan River also by name.

[bvw]

And based on your interpretation, what are the borders? Are can you not say, except that by doing so, you might admit some legitimacy of that title?

[honway]

http://www.bible.ca/maps/maps-united-kingdom.gif

Are these the borders you are suggesting? Are there many others with a similiar view?

[honway]

I hope the map in #429 demonstrates why the U.S War on Terrorism should remain separate from the Israeli War on Terrorism. I suspect many may share your view about the borders of Israel.

[bvw]

That's a map dilineating a decent history reasearcher's approximation the borders of Israel in the time of David and Solomon. That's better for all then the pre-67 borders of modern Israel, yet it's still only an approxiamtion to the Biblically ordained boundaries.

What war for good cause, produces any effect but that which pleases the Lord of All Creation? That's the question -- are we sailing into the wind or against it? If we take the the view that the Bible establishes title (a good view that),then how best to resolve the affairs of men in alignment with that title?

[honway]

......And what act of espionage is he guilty of? Do you even know?.....





http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/pollard.html


In November 1985, the FBI arrested Jonathan Pollard, a U.S. Navy intelligence analyst, on charges of selling classified material to Israel. Pollard was subsequently sentenced to life imprisonment. His wife, Anne, got five years in jail for assisting her husband.

Immediately upon Pollard's arrest, Israel apologized and explained that the operation was unauthorized.

Though initially shunned by Israel, the government of Benjamin Netanyahu admitted that Pollard had worked for Israeli intelligence and granted him citizenship. Netanyahu requested clemency for Pollard during Middle East peace talks at the Wye Plantation in Maryland in 1998.

. At the end of Clinton's term, the issue was again raised and Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), chairman of the Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence, along with a majority of senators argued against a pardon. "Mr. Pollard is a convicted spy who put our national security at risk and endangered the lives of our intelligence officers," Shelby said. "There not terms strong enough to express my belief that Mr. Pollard should serve every minute of his sentence...."5

[honway]

That's better for all then the pre-67 borders of modern Israel

My main point is that before America's War on Terror is joined with Israel's War, we define what Israel's objectives are.

Is it a widely held belief that current day Israel should expand to include the borders ordained by God, including Jordan and Syria?

[honway]

http://www.blueletterbible.org/images/maps/Otest/boundaries.html

Boundaries of the Tribes of Israel (map)

[bvw]

Well, on good authority, the Creator himself, holds that view -- so in that regard it is "widely" held! Do people and inviduals hold that view? -- As long as they have a soul, somewhere they do, but it may be very hidden to them, and they may be in some vanity or rebellion against it. Some folks refuse to broach this aspect of the the title to Israel for that reason -- of driving others in rebellion, or out of vanity, even further away from God. Sort of "chinese handcuff" theory -- the more you fight them against holding that wrong idea, the harder they will hold it.

I believe that America was born as a Nation with a strong rebellious streak in it. Rebel, yet towards righteous rebelllion. A Nation with a a deep respect and regard for the Creator, and for that aspect of creation known as Liberty. That as long as we continue to deeply respect and regard our Creator, the blessings of Liberty will continue to flow for us. And that respect entails a regard for the proper boundaries of Israel.

[honway]

the blessings of Liberty will continue to flow for us

There are over 3 million Palestinians in Israel in self-determination no-mans land. Tens of thousands living in refugee camps. Do you have any thoughts about the blessings of Liberty as the concept should relate to Palestinians?

[bvw]

Besides being on the dole, and raising mothers to breed and celebrate suicidal murderers, thus to collect the Saudi's martyr mother's dole what exactly do these folks do for a living? Self-determination, where that self-determination is turned to hatred and murder is no Liberty, and making a State does what?

Would you be asking the dear beloved Saudi Princes excatly how much Jewish self-determination they allow in their rich and huge land? Mayhaps those wealthy Saudis would welcome their fellow Arabs to a place of self-determination and good works in that great land? Or would you even to be asking that question?

Or would you be to stroking further the human destroying fires of hate and murder by begging off the Saudis, ignoring that truly peaceable solution for the sake of being a thorn in the side of Israel? And what of you says, then, your own G-d?

[honway]

Thank you. I have a better understanding of your concept of Liberty now.

[bvw]

And what is that?

[E Rocc]

. At the end of Clinton's term, the issue was again raised and Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), chairman of the Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence, along with a majority of senators argued against a pardon. "Mr. Pollard is a convicted spy who put our national security at risk and endangered the lives of our intelligence officers," Shelby said. "There not terms strong enough to express my belief that Mr. Pollard should serve every minute of his sentence...."

An older but informative post/thread on why Pollard should never be released.

High-level suspicions about Israeli-Soviet collusion were expressed as early as December, 1985, a month after Pollard's arrest, when William J. Casey, the late C.I.A. director, who was known for his close ties to the Israeli leadership, stunned one of his station chiefs by suddenly complaining about the Israelis breaking the "ground rules." The issue arose when Casey urged increased monitoring of the Israelis during an otherwise routine visit, I was told by the station chief, who is now retired. "He asked if I knew anything about the Pollard case," the station chief recalled, and he said that Casey had added, "For your information, the Israelis used Pollard to obtain our attack plan against the U.S.S.R. all of it. The coordinates, the firing locations, the sequences. And for guess who? The Soviets." Casey had then explained that the Israelis had traded the Pollard data for Soviet emigres. "How's that for cheating?" he had asked.

-Eric