Bush: 'We are committed to the Road Map'

Jerusalem Post ^ | Apr. 8, 2003

[Alouette]

expelling three million people from their homes in order to expand "Eretz Israel".

You have no difficulty endorsing the expulsion of half a million people from their homes in order to create "Palestine."

[Asher]

"Their national security is largely paid for by our tax dollars"

This, like so much else of what you write, is another lie. Your three billion comes in useful but it is hardly the be all and end all. It wouldn't be needed at all if the U.S. weren't busily arming a vicious terrorist regime like Egypt to the teeth.

"Not a single nation on Earth recognizes any Israeli right to annex the West Bank or Gaza."

And not a nation on a earth lifted a finger to prevent the Holocaust, so what else is new?

[Asher]

"The "road map" does not threaten Israel proper. Indeed it makes it more secure as the "Quartet" would become de facto guarantors of Israel's security"

Having turned their back on Israel in 1967 and 1973 I wouldn't trust most of the Quartet as far as I could throw them. It's easy for an armchair supporter of terrorism like you because you're not the one in danger.

[carton253]

You have a very bad habit... you take the exception in Israel's history and make it the rule. You take the rule in Palestinian history and make it the exception.

To compare Menachim Begin to the leaders of Hamas and Fatah or worse to Arafat is warped.

Ben Gurion never approved of Begin or Irgun. The Israeli government turned over the Irgun to the British... and worked hard to disrupt their terror. Ben Gurion understood that terrorism was never justified.

Palestinian terror is state sanction, Arafat approved, Arab bought and paid for.

Statehood often moderates terrorists... what planet do you live on... There is nothing in Arafat's words that could leave anyone with sense to think that all Arafat will be satisified with the West Bank and Gaza. He has made it ver clear (since 1964) that he will be satisfied when Palestine includes the cities of Tel Aviv, Haifa, etc.

[Piranha]

Now, now. No need to get nasty about our President or Americans in general. When you calm down, you'll find that we're pretty good-hearted people who generally try and do the right thing.

I don't understand how the US government -- even the State Department -- can believe that it is in our national interest to create a state for the Palestinians when they are demonstrating for Saddam and actually sending busloads of soldiers to fight for Iraq!

IMO, the right course of action is to take the west bank "refugees" who have refused to resettle since Israel was founded, and who live in refugee camps maintained by the UN (and our tax dollars), and to ship 'em off to live with their brethren in the Palestinian kingdom of Jordan. The other non-Israeli residents of the west bank already have Jordanian citizenship, and they should be permitted to stay in the west bank and continue to hold their Jordanian citizenship. However, they should be repatriated to Palestine/Jordan if they commit acts inconsistent with recognition of Israel. Finally, I think that Israel should become a federated country, with the west bank and Gaza being one or two states among six or so -- the galilee, the heartland, the negev, etc.

[Non-Sequitur]

IMO, the right course of action is to take the west bank "refugees" who have refused to resettle since Israel was founded, and who live in refugee camps maintained by the UN (and our tax dollars), and to ship 'em off to live with their brethren in the Palestinian kingdom of Jordan.

What if they don't want to go? What then?

[Piranha]

If you don't remember, Israel was under enormous pressure from the US not to strike back in the Gulf War, and Lawrence Eagleburger was sent to Israel to restrain Shamir's hands. It was the most painful time in Israel's history, and marked the beginning of a 10-year period when Israel was not allowed to defend itself. While we tried to prevent the scuds from landing on Israel, in fact we did very little that helped Israel. The Patriot Missiles that were set up in Israel to shoot down the incoming scuds actually failed (with, I think, one exception).

James (F-ck the Jews) Baker then used this forced impotence to twist Shamir's arm into showing up at the Madrid Conference where we tried to slice and dice our ally.

[Ga Rob]

I agree!!! I mean they fought the war they won, when they were attacked. If they give this land up, what of their security then? Why are things ineveitable?? I tell you what is inevitable....if they give the Palestinians=Jordanians a seperate state, they will fight another war against the arab countries, that is certain.

[Ga Rob]

allie= many, plural, more than one

ally= one, singular

"I guess there will always be mental midgets in all of out lives. "

[Piranha]

I don't think they'll want to go. The point is, they are refugees who have refused to leave their camps. They don't want to live in the west bank, either. They want to move to Jaffa, Haifa, Lod and other cities that they left in 1947-1948.

By contrast, by the way, a roughly equivalent number of Jews were forced out of the Arab nation from Morocco to Iraq. Not only did they leave literally billions of dollars of real estate and assets in the Arab countries, but they were resettled in Israel and the west without US and UN funds.

Before World War II, Baghdad had about 125,000 Jews. They were instrumental in the import-export trade as well as the legal and medical professions, and even were represented in Iraq's parliament Most recent count, last year, was about 50. They were different from the "refugees" in the UNRWA refugee camps because they looked to the future and resettled, whether in the US, the UK or Israel.

[carton253]

twist their arm...

Just a nice way to write "coerced and blackmailed" Israel to show up at the Madrid Conference, which is what happened.

[carton253]

The point is, they are refugees who have refused to leave their camps

And there have been refugees who have been barred from leaving by the PLO who don't want to lose their number one political hammer against Israel.

[carton253]

America did Israel no favors by forcing her to the sidelines in 1991. What was worse, when Saddam Hussein linked the Gulf War to the Palestinian cause, America bought that linkage, which set in motion a series of diplomatic mistakes that would end with the signing of the Oslo agreement.

[Piranha]

I think that if you look at my previous posts, you won't find any language that justifies your nasty response.

The US has been a true friend of Israel since the day it was declared. While we have put undue and unfair pressure on Israel on many occasions, that was because our State Department concluded that it was in our national interest to do so.

Unfortunately, this is one of those times.

I don't think that we should support Israel right or wrong. However, I think that Israel is absolutely right in not carbing up its heartland to turn it over to the only group of terrorists who went over to Iraq to fight our army. I don't understand why this is in our national interest.

In fact, I think that if we took Israel a bit MORE seriously, we wouldn't try to force it to create a new state of Palestine. It is precisely because we value Tony Blair more than Israell that our government perceives our national interest to be in favor of the road map instead of being clearly opposed to Palestinian terrorism.

[carton253]

In fact, we have been targets just BECAUSE we support Israel

That's not exactly true. That cause is given as a pre-text. It shows up in Bin Ladin's fatwas as reason #3 or #4. It is never the true reason.

In 1991, the Patriot Missle was not the success that the US Government claimed it to be. (thankfully that has changed) Israel, who suffered direct attacks against its cities, should have been allowed to defend herself. Fear of losing Arab allies forced America to sit hard on Israel.

The Madrid Conference and the aftermath have been painful to Israel. It was a self-inflicted wound...done because of external pressure from the US.

No, the world does not revolve around Israel. Nor does it revolve around America. And just because we support Israel (and at times use that support to force Israel into untenable positions) doesn't mean that America can treat Israel like a red-headed step child either.

Israel is our ally, not our vassal... but, in trying to appease the Arabs, we exert pressure on Israel that we would never do to another ally.