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Israeli Military Amazed, "Jealous" At U.S. War Against Iraq
World Tribune.com ^ | 04/14/2003 | Special to World Tribune

Posted on 04/14/2003 1:35:10 PM PDT by Dirk McQuickly

TEL AVIV — Israeli defense officials and military commanders have expressed amazement over the capture of one of the largest and most powerful Arab countries by what they say amounted to fewer than three U.S. Army divisions.

The officials said the U.S. strategy of avoiding enemy troop concentrations as well as exploiting combat air supremacy comprises methods far more advanced than those employed by the Israeli military.

"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place," Yuval Steinetz, chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee, said. "We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

"I am jealous of them [U.S. military]," Maj. Gen. Dan Harel, head of the Israel military's C4 directorate, said. "They have advanced in areas that we were leading in only a few years ago. They have the ability to put everything together in command and control. Our navy and air force have systems. but we have to integrate them."

Officials and military commanders agreed that the U.S. war in Iraq overshadowed the 1967 Israeli victory over four Arab countries, including Iraq. They said the United States sustained about 100 casualties in three weeks of fighting that resulted in the capture of Baghdad and most Iraqi cities. In contrast, about 600 Israeli soldiers were killed in the six days of the 1967 war, most of them in the ground battle with Egypt in the Sinai Peninsula.

(Excerpt) Read more at worldtribune.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: iraqifreedom; israel; lessons; military; miltech; warplan; worldopinion
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World military academies will be dissecting this for years to come. Once a little distance is put between April 9th and the coming years, the words "shock and awe" will have a much different meaning. One-sixth of out military overran Iraq. The only counter seems to be an effective anti-air system, and that will require a serious leap in technology to challenge our air superiority.

Bravo, Bush, Franks, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, et al.

1 posted on 04/14/2003 1:35:10 PM PDT by Dirk McQuickly
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Now that IS a compliment. Kudos to W's team.

V


2 posted on 04/14/2003 1:37:03 PM PDT by Beck_isright ("QUAGMIRE" - French word for "unable to find anyone to surrender to")
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3 posted on 04/14/2003 1:37:23 PM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Israel is no stanger to shock and awe. They shocked and awe'ed the Arab world in six days, just 25 yrs ago.
4 posted on 04/14/2003 1:37:29 PM PDT by week 71
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Bravo, Bush, Franks, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, et al.

Amen!

5 posted on 04/14/2003 1:38:07 PM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrissssstian)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
"This has been a very strange and unprecedented war and it will take us awhile to learn what took place,"

Simple, we played a game of 'Cowboys and Arabs'.

6 posted on 04/14/2003 1:39:37 PM PDT by Hodar (With Rights, comes Responsibilities. Don't assume one, without assuming the other.)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Dear Despot( insert name here): If you are going to f*** with eagles, you'd better learn to fly.
7 posted on 04/14/2003 1:40:49 PM PDT by JeeperFreeper
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To: Dirk McQuickly
They are pretty darn good themselves and a lot better than they will admit.
8 posted on 04/14/2003 1:42:59 PM PDT by SBprone
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To: Dirk McQuickly
The whole world is amazed and jealous!
9 posted on 04/14/2003 1:43:43 PM PDT by tomahawk
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To: Dirk McQuickly
The only counter seems to be an effective anti-air system, and that will require a serious leap in technology to challenge our air superiority.

We didn't even break a sweat in the air campaign. No use of EMPs, no tactical nukes. This is how we wage war against people we like, in full view of the press. Imagine if we were ticked off, or felt that out survival was in danger.

10 posted on 04/14/2003 1:43:48 PM PDT by js1138
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Key components of the strategy: pick a country that
1)is 20+ years behind you technologically
2)wants you to liberate them
3)has an army that will drop their guns at the first whiff of gunpowder
4)has no air defense capability beyond a few AAAs Meet those conditions, and execute your plan with complete excellence, and success will follow.
11 posted on 04/14/2003 1:44:32 PM PDT by eBelasco
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To: Dirk McQuickly
The War College is going to have a field day with this one for the next couple of decades.

Never thought about it before but America has THE most battle hardened military in the world.

12 posted on 04/14/2003 1:44:55 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
"We will have to learn from this war and draw the conclusions."

And then take out Syria, saving us the trouble.

13 posted on 04/14/2003 1:45:16 PM PDT by kevao
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To: Dirk McQuickly
amazing article... thanks for posting
14 posted on 04/14/2003 1:45:20 PM PDT by bedolido
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To: kevao
I wonder if the same tactic of shock and awe would work on N. Korea?
15 posted on 04/14/2003 1:45:58 PM PDT by IvanT
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To: eBelasco
1)is 20+ years behind you technologically

I don't think there's a country out there that holds a candle to our troops.

Israel and Britain are close at the man to man level but we still could crush everything else.

16 posted on 04/14/2003 1:46:50 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: IvanT
I wonder if the same tactic of shock and awe would work on N. Korea?

Depends on whether N. Korea really has nukes, and how many.

17 posted on 04/14/2003 1:48:11 PM PDT by kevao
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To: Dirk McQuickly
I thought the rackies got a hold of some great anti-tank missles. And I thought they had silkworms. Were they overhyped duds? Anyone? I think a silkworm did actually hit a mall in kuwait. US Navy not exactly scared.
18 posted on 04/14/2003 1:48:44 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: Centurion2000
That's true. Try wargming this strategy against a hypothetical UK or Israel-like opponent. The mismatch in resources would eventually lead to an end with the same result as in Iraq.
19 posted on 04/14/2003 1:49:03 PM PDT by eBelasco
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To: js1138
We did not fully disclose the munitions we employed.

Don't be surprised to find out we did employ conductive fibre element ("graphite bomb) and EMP munitions to disable certain elements of Iraqi infrastructure without physically destroying it.

Our SOFs don't just involve guys with camo paint and whisper mikes.
20 posted on 04/14/2003 1:49:22 PM PDT by Blueflag
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To: eBelasco
that's everyone except china, russia, and the good guys (US/UK).
21 posted on 04/14/2003 1:49:46 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: epluribus_2; hchutch
They got the best ATGMs made in the Former Worker's Paradise...and bagged a grand total of two M1A1s with them. Neither was a catastrophic kill.

Good weapons and inept troops are a very expensive way to purchase ineffective military power.

22 posted on 04/14/2003 1:50:41 PM PDT by Poohbah (Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of their women!)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
The Israelis could do the same with their airpower if they wanted. We are going to find that anyone using US technology will rule the battlefield.
23 posted on 04/14/2003 1:51:06 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Blueflag
and we probably sealed lots of deals with Iraqi generals. We won't find out about this tell our kids tell us about seeing it on "History Channel" years from now.
24 posted on 04/14/2003 1:51:12 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: AppyPappy
I think the R+D for cruise missles is going to go up in a lot of countries. And for defending against them.
25 posted on 04/14/2003 1:51:46 PM PDT by epluribus_2
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To: eBelasco
That's true. Try wargming this strategy against a hypothetical UK or Israel-like opponent. The mismatch in resources would eventually lead to an end with the same result as in Iraq.

True, but with higher losses. The interesting wargame would have put Iraq on the spoiling offensive and attempting to inflict mass casualties with every weapon they had.

Thank God our enemy was a total idiot this time.

26 posted on 04/14/2003 1:51:49 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: epluribus_2
that's everyone except china, russia,

Even china and russia are slipping further and further behind us.

27 posted on 04/14/2003 1:52:51 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: Blueflag
I did think it was quite a coincidence that the lights went out in Baghdad at 9:00 pm during a new moon, and that 36 hours later, Fox was showing film of the drive into the city. It would be interesting to find out exactly what caused the lights to go out. Last fall I expected that to be the first act of the war, so I was prepared for what happened.
28 posted on 04/14/2003 1:54:22 PM PDT by js1138
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To: Blueflag; js1138
I'm still not sure the very existence of EMP bombs wasn't a clever bit of pre-battle disinformation designed to keep them busy countering imaginary weapons.
29 posted on 04/14/2003 1:54:37 PM PDT by dead
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To: eBelasco
Don't forget U.S. troop superiority in training, equipment, motivation, morale, etc.
30 posted on 04/14/2003 1:54:58 PM PDT by polemikos
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To: epluribus_2
The world will keep buying that Russian and Chinese junk. Countries like India would be wise to cozy up with us instead of buying that failed equipment.
31 posted on 04/14/2003 1:55:45 PM PDT by AppyPappy (If You're Not A Part Of The Solution, There's Good Money To Made In Prolonging The Problem.)
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Bookmarking and bumping ...
32 posted on 04/14/2003 1:56:00 PM PDT by BunnySlippers
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To: eBelasco
>>...Key components of the strategy: pick a country that...<<

5)Has adjoining countries willing to allow US bases.

(What would we have done without Kuwait?)

33 posted on 04/14/2003 1:56:17 PM PDT by FReepaholic
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To: Centurion2000
Just a bit higher It's smart not to pick a fight with someone who will really hurt you, unless it's life or death. I read somewhere some quotes from some Marines that they could not believe the tactical ineptness of the Iraqis they faced. They said it was like they had no officers, and the ones they did have couldn't do anything right.
34 posted on 04/14/2003 1:56:24 PM PDT by eBelasco
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To: epluribus_2
Ha Ha. Me and my hubby tell my 7 y.o., who likes the History channel now, that he will be watching this on the History Channel when he is our age, and be telling his kids about it.
More film than any other war also, IMHO.
35 posted on 04/14/2003 1:56:26 PM PDT by eyespysomething
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To: IvanT
I don't think anybody wants to find out. Iraq couldn't harm Kuwait this time. North Korea has been in a perpetual state of military readiness for the past fifty years; its army is ready for immediate deployment, and would likely overrun Seoul and kill millions of South Koreans within days of the first sign of an invasion. Add to that the possibility of nukes, and the equation looks like this: we'll eventually win, but millions will die in South Korea, and there may not be a Seoul or Tokyo left at the end of it.
36 posted on 04/14/2003 1:56:42 PM PDT by JaimeD2
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To: JaimeD2
You're right, I don't think it'd work....
37 posted on 04/14/2003 1:58:15 PM PDT by IvanT
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To: dead
I suspect we did everything possible to portray ourselves as the supermen we are. No sense running up needless enemy casulties by giving false hope.
38 posted on 04/14/2003 1:58:29 PM PDT by js1138
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To: JaimeD2
and would likely overrun Seoul and kill millions of South Koreans within days of the first sign of an invasion.

In my opinion this is a ridiculously exagerrated number, though you often see it claimed in a variety of articles.

39 posted on 04/14/2003 1:58:46 PM PDT by John H K
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To: Dirk McQuickly
The Americans were inspired. As a Christian I would say that they were inspired by God.
40 posted on 04/14/2003 1:59:12 PM PDT by tiki
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To: AppyPappy
The world will keep buying that Russian and Chinese junk. Countries like India would be wise to cozy up with us instead of buying that failed equipment.

I don't like the idea of the US selling any of their equipment to anyone that can't be trusted with it. You could potentially facing your own stuff in the battlefield. Let them buy the crap stuff.

41 posted on 04/14/2003 1:59:21 PM PDT by IvanT
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To: Dirk McQuickly
It also helps a great deal when the enemy is a cruel dictatorship of long standing.
42 posted on 04/14/2003 1:59:45 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Poohbah
What we don't know is how many of those "great anti-tank weapons" detonated against the M1-A1s to no effect. We heard reports of 'swarms' of anti-tank missiles that were at worst noisy and scary.

We do know that the two effective attacks were (a) from the rear at very close range and only disabled the power pack and did not penetrate the crew compartment, and (b) again from close range started a fire that eventually caused the crew to abandon the hull.

All in all, I'd say their kill ratio was lousy. Put me in an M1-A2 anyday. Especially when the tank troops are accompanied by mounted/dismounted infantry in Bradly(s) and CAS is available.
43 posted on 04/14/2003 2:00:25 PM PDT by Blueflag
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To: epluribus_2
I thought the rackies got a hold of some great anti-tank missles. And I thought they had silkworms. Were they overhyped duds? Anyone? I think a silkworm did actually hit a mall in kuwait. US Navy not exactly scared.
Actually the shocking thing is that there are almost no reports of the Iraqis EVER using anything more sophisticated than RPGs. Other than that possible use of two KORNETs (which still must be considered unproven) I can't think of any other reports. Not even of Saggers (1973 Yom Kippur War era ATGM) which are still better than RPGs vs. tanks. The Iraqis had thousands of ATGMs which were better than RPGs. It's clear there was basically no resistance from anyone but Fedayeen.
44 posted on 04/14/2003 2:02:01 PM PDT by John H K
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To: epluribus_2
Exactly. There was no eastern front, and little need to protect our right flankas we moved north, even though the Iraqis had divisions along the Iran border. They were the smart ones.
45 posted on 04/14/2003 2:02:04 PM PDT by Blueflag
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To: Dirk McQuickly
Last week on the Washington Report on CNBC they interviewed a fellow who gave insight into Rumsfeld's and other military leaders mindsets. I didn't get the name of the book he referred to, but the gist is responding so quickly that you get inside the enemies decision cycle, thus paralyzing them. It sounds like Rumsfeld and others really took the lesson to heart.
46 posted on 04/14/2003 2:02:47 PM PDT by Paraclete
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To: tomahawk
Shock and Awe continues...
47 posted on 04/14/2003 2:03:24 PM PDT by proust (Hello, Cthulhu!)
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To: eBelasco
Key components of the strategy: pick a country that

1)is 20+ years behind you technologically
2)wants you to liberate them
3)has an army that will drop their guns at the first whiff of gunpowder

4)has no air defense capability beyond a few AAAs Meet those conditions, and execute your plan with complete excellence, and success will follow.

But what would we do after France surrendered?
48 posted on 04/14/2003 2:03:26 PM PDT by George Smiley
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To: dead
re: EMP munitions

For civilian infrastructure, there is no practical countermeasure or defense. Think of it as the neutron bomb for electronics.

they do exist.
49 posted on 04/14/2003 2:04:23 PM PDT by Blueflag
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To: George Smiley
I heard the Frenchwomen are pretty nice.
50 posted on 04/14/2003 2:04:39 PM PDT by eBelasco
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