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To: Hank Kerchief; RJCogburn; LogicWings
Since she is dead and we still exist, the universe in which she dwelt is shown not to be Rand-centered for her, afterall. Neither are you nor I the center of "our" universe, because, of course, it's not really about you or me.

Also, the standards and best goals we would hope people live by are not brought by self-interest. Actually, it would be good for me to live (or die) for values, if they are standards higher than looking out for what is in my earthly life's interest. Interestingly, it just so happens that actual values (highest standards) are about what is in my ultimate interest, but that is only because God created me for Himself, in love and care.

If I don't believe this, life just does not matter after my three-score and ten (or if it does, it only does for the sake of any others in their bandwidth, and if I care about them, so as to modify and mitigate my "gains" in my lifespan in order to benefit those who come after me (even such as saving up and passing on my estate to my son, instead of enjoying it all myself) I break the "rule" of self-interest only.

Back to self-interest in, of, and for my own earthly lifespan, as it was said, "What shall if profit a (capitalist) if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?"
86 posted on 04/22/2003 8:39:53 PM PDT by unspun (It's not about you.)
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To: unspun
A person who does not live for himself has no soul.
107 posted on 04/22/2003 9:01:20 PM PDT by Misterioso
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To: unspun
Since she is dead and we still exist, the universe in which she dwelt is shown not to be Rand-centered for her, afterall.

Who ever said it was. Certainly Ayn Rand never did. She would never have said such a thing, because it is meaningless.

Neither are you nor I the center of "our" universe, because, of course, it's not really about you or me.

What is "it"? What's not really about you or me? Are you here contradicting your Christian doctrine that it is for "you and me" that the Savior died? What does this mean?

Also, the standards and best goals we would hope people live by are not brought by self-interest.

Really. So, what you are saying is that standards and best goals are bad for us. That if we do the very best there is to do, if we follow the highest possibile standards of morality and good, it will be worse for us than if we do not quite follow them.

Since you are a Christian, is not the very best thing you could do for yourself be to believe and have your sins remitted so that you might spend eternity in heaven? What could be more selfish than that. If being selfish is wrong, every Christian should denounce their Savior immediately in unselfish sacrifice and doom themselves to eternal separation from God.

Interestingly, it just so happens that actual values (highest standards) are about what is in my ultimate interest

You may think it is just "interesting," like a curiosity, but it is actually an obvious fact, because any other view is absurd.

"What shall if profit a (capitalist) if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?"

Now, see, if you knew your Bible a little better, you would never have used this passage for your argument. The Bible does not teach altruism, even though every theologian and every organized church does.

For your edification, the "soul" one ought to be careful not to loose, not matter what else is gained, do you know what it is? It is one's SELF, that one must never sacrifice to anything else, even the whole world, even their children, their family, their neighbors, or their "group."

The following are two Scriptural recordings of the same event, compare:

Mat. 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Luke 9:25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?

You can have it your way, but the Bible makes it clear, the most important thing to you or me, is you and me, and whatever else we should gain, if we loose ourselves, we have lost everything that matters.

Hank

130 posted on 04/22/2003 9:28:13 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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