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Rumfeld's Rejection Of Islamic State Angers Shias
Independent (UK) ^ | 4-26-2003 | Phil Reeves

Posted on 04/25/2003 4:21:24 PM PDT by blam

Rumsfeld's rejection of Islamic state angers Shias

By Phil Reeves in Baghdad
26 April 2003

Donald Rumsfeld, the US Secretary of State, will have won plaudits from his zealous friends by declaring that an "Iranian-style" Islamic government "is not going to happen" in Iraq. But his words fell on stony ground outside the al-Muhsen mosque in Baghdad yesterday.

Members of the huge Shia crowd gathered for Friday prayers were quick to spot the contradiction in his position.

"I thought the Americans said they wanted a democracy in Iraq," said Kassem al-Sa'adi, a 41-year-old merchant. "If it is a democracy, why are they allowed to make the rules?"

About 13,000 people gathered outside the mosque where the imam, Jabal al-Khafji called for an Islamic state in Iraq. The cleric's view is widely shared by Iraq's Shia majority which is clamouring for the occupying forces to be removed.

Dr al-Khafji said that no political alliances should be formed by Shia groups unless it was with Islamic groups. Islam must dictate all policy-making, he added.

Any move to an Iranian-style Shia Islamic state would also be opposed by the Kurds, the Iraqi secular intelligentsia and the Sunni minority. Yet pressure is building. Iran is quietly at work in Iraq's Shia community, with intelligence agents reportedly active in the south. The Iranian-backed Badr militia has been asserting itself in border towns.

The millions of Shias who gathered this week in the holy city of Karbala served as a warning to the US that it must find some way of accommodating the clerics. A move in that direction was evident yesterday on the streets.

Patrolling the worshippers was a band of Iraqi policemen wearing freshly pressed uniforms, moustaches and nervous frowns. They are members of the old civil police force. They played a mundane walk-on part in the regime's apparatus but their appearance was enough to set off alarm bells.

These men had been re-packaged in an effort to ease their passage into one of the most sensitive parts of the new Iraq. It was also a tentative attempt to bring the Shias under the larger umbrella of the still-unformed government and its law enforcement agencies. Only a few carried pistols, and these were hidden.

All wore labels stating their rank and – in an effort to establish their legitimacy before the locals – a logo showing Mohammed Bakr al-Sadr, the Shia cleric whose murder by Saddam has made him a martyr. His stature is such that Saddam City – the Shia quarter of Baghdad – has been renamed after him.

While the crowd listened to the imam's address, police formed a line separating the media from the mullahs and their followers. But their authority was nothing compared to the other force supervising the occasion – young men with ammunition belts and Kalashnikovs, charged by their religious leaders with maintaining order. They directed the traffic and the crowds, and stood on the rooftops, guarding against attack. These are part of the Shia apparatus which currently runs the show in this part of the capital, just as they do in the holy cities of Najaf and Karbala and some of the border towns.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: democracy; islamic; rejection; rumsfelds; shias; state; theocracy
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To: TalBlack
"These people aren't even ashamed that THEY didn't have the manhood to fight for their own freedom."

That is so true. These people are pathetic.

41 posted on 04/25/2003 6:51:00 PM PDT by Theresa
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To: ricpic
And if 51% of them agree with that position, isn't that democracy? And what then?

THis is why the US is not a democracy, and hopefully never will be. The US is supposed to be a Constitutional Republic. The difference is that in a Constitutional Republic certain rights are outside the reach of majority vote

42 posted on 04/25/2003 7:01:48 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (Heavily armed, easily bored, and off my medication)
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To: MEG33
Next thing you know they'll call us the Great Satan and declare jihad.

I'm giving it two years maximum from the fall of Baghdad
until exactly that happens.  If they can get past two years
without religious war or armed revolt, Iraq might work.
43 posted on 04/25/2003 8:00:15 PM PDT by gcruse
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To: gcruse
Praying for a better Iraq.God bless our efforts and bring forth good leaders.
44 posted on 04/25/2003 8:08:31 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Dec31,1999
>>Sorry to break into your dream<<

Perhaps you are dreaming, I am not.

risa
45 posted on 04/25/2003 10:57:23 PM PDT by Risa
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To: Dec31,1999
>>You should walk a mile in their shoes. <<

Would you mind referencing the statement to which you refer so I might make sense of your errant comments. Whose shoes? A rabble-rousing Muslim cleric's shoes? Never!

risa
46 posted on 04/25/2003 11:06:37 PM PDT by Risa
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To: jimkress

"we are not going to work with the Iraqi people to put into place a government which offers thr people: one person, one vote, one time. It will be a representative state in which there are regular transfers of power from one group to another via the ballot box." -- jimkress

The only transfer of power that exists in Rumsfeld's mind are your tax dollars to pay for all these world wars that Congress refuses to declare. Our nation is not innocent about the excitation of war in the ME... in fact, American government created much of it. Creating a democracy in Iraq is nothing more than making the claim that America will be involved for over 50 years in Iraq as America is involved with over one hundred other countries around the world ... all to the dismay of the American taxpayer.
47 posted on 04/25/2003 11:19:39 PM PDT by Buckeroo
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To: blam; Sabertooth
Isn't this group the minority anyway?
48 posted on 04/25/2003 11:29:30 PM PDT by Jael
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To: Risa
Perhaps you are dreaming, I am not.

Wouldn't be the first time! Feel free to wake me up! LOL!

Whose shoes?

I was talking about ordinary folks, or innocent people under Islamofascist rule.

49 posted on 04/27/2003 7:51:28 AM PDT by Dec31,1999 (Full speed ahead!)
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To: Dec31,1999
>>I was talking about ordinary folks, or innocent people under Islamofascist rule<<

Oh, now I understand. In my comment, I wasn't referring to the Iraqi people. I referred to the Muslim clerics, who would return from exile, prey upon the vulnerable minds of the Iraqi people, stir up trouble for the liberators, and demand the creation of a regime as fascist as Saddam's. I find this behavior appalling and cowardly, too.


regards,
risa
50 posted on 04/27/2003 10:19:22 AM PDT by Risa
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To: blam
So What. Anger is the default state for shias'.
51 posted on 04/27/2003 10:21:21 AM PDT by Semper Paratus
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To: Risa
It's a clear danger that Iraq, being a Muslim country, will be ruled by Islamofascists shortly. Iran is sending in people to infiltrate the movement for freedom, and the government of Syria has a vested interest in derailing liberty in that country, as well.

I appreciated Rumsfeld's comment the other day that he wouldn't let the country be ruled by a theocracy, because if we are risking life and limb to liberate a country, why should we turn it back over to Muslim Fascist Fanatics?

Best Regards. -DC3199

52 posted on 04/27/2003 3:06:18 PM PDT by Dec31,1999 (Full speed ahead!)
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To: blam
"If it is a democracy, why are they allowed to make then rules."
Hey pal, take a look around. Do you see anyone who has done the 'democracy thing' as well as we have? Now sit down, get out your #2 pencil, and take notes. The Constitution of the United States of America will be an excellent reference point with which to build your own democracy.
53 posted on 04/27/2003 3:22:46 PM PDT by airborne
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To: blam
When will everyone get off the crap-pile and just say the truth: we want to install a republican form of government. Democratically elected, of course.
54 posted on 04/27/2003 3:31:57 PM PDT by Thumper1960
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To: blam
Shias or not, dummies, you lost the war!!

No s*it! To the victor goes the spoils.

55 posted on 04/27/2003 3:35:05 PM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: blam
Right on! I'm getting a little tired of the Shias. Maybe they would be happier if we handed them back to Saddam and the boys.
56 posted on 04/27/2003 3:39:43 PM PDT by Ima Lurker
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