Full official text - Roadmap

IMRA/ US State Dept ^ | 4-30-03

[El Gato]

the Quartet [the United States, European Union, United Nations, and Russia].

Now there is a nice unbiased group. NOT! The UN is composed of a bunch of representatives of tyrants and dictators, many of them Arab, and very firmly anti Israel. Russian has supported Israel's enemies, first as the Soviet Union and continuing as Russia, for decades. The European Union is overrun with Arabic Muslims and many of the European countries had and have signifignet anti semitic groups within them. Only he US has been a "friend" to Israel, but the many Arabists in the State department are always fighting that position. Instead of holding their coat, as friend would, we've held them back after their enemies have struck the first blow, and many subsequant ones besides. I don't understand why the US thinks that what works and is right for us, is wrong and/or won't work for them.

[WOSG]

Anything in there that gives freedom to Arabs in Lebanon or Syria?

Interesting how democracy is only needed for Arabs of the west bank and not for Arabs of the other countries.

[WOSG]

I just hope the strategery is still coming from the White House and not the State Dept, 'cause this sure looks like 'same old same old' and a new anti-terrorist twist is needed to have this mean something.

Frankly, one state - 2 states - n states .. doesnt matter ... what matters is whether people have freedom or tyranny.
And whether they live in a civil society or barbaric one.

[Phil V.]

Bush don't buy C - R - @ - P!

Trust da man, please.

[rogue yam]

At the outset of Phase I:

+Palestinian leadership issues unequivocal statement reiterating Israel’s right to exist in peace and security and calling for an immediate and unconditional ceasefire to end armed activity and all acts of violence against Israelis anywhere. All official Palestinian institutions end incitement against Israel.

Phase I, step one. Has never happened. Don't expect it ever will. This whole thing won't even get off the ground this go-round. Maybe in a few years when Iran is free, Iraq is cranking along, and Arafat is dead. Not now. The Pali's just don't have it in them to stop cursing the Jews with every breath. Not yet, anyway.

[MississippiMan]

The problem has always been that the Palestinians want all of the West Bank with the Jewish people gone and the Israelis want all of the West Bank and the Palestinian people gone. Both sides want land and peace.

No, the problem has always been that the Palestinians want the utter, unequivocal annihilation of Israel, period. It's all they've ever wanted and it's all they'll ever want. In the much-ballyhooed Clinton summit at Camp David, Israel offered a stunning (and stupid) 95% of all Palestinian demands. They quickly said no. If that doesn't make the situation clear, nothing will.

MM

[nicollo]

This roadmap will not fly because the Palestinians will not abandon their use of terrorism to accomplish their long-stated goal of destroying the Isreali state. All this roadmap will accomplish is to once again demonstrate this.

That's why terrorism is the first pit stop on the course. It's both the out and the pressure on the PA. Bush can walk saying they didn't comply. The danger is not that the PA doesn't comply, it's that the Administration accepts half-measures. This not being the Clintoon years, I think it's a reasonable expectation that this reality on the PA will prevail. If it doesn't, the President has a legitimate and convenient back door.

This will work.

I predicted the week after Sept 11 that it will end with a Nobel for Bush or Powell, most likely Powell. I stand by that prediction and I see it more certain than ever. It will be the first Nobel to mean something in ages.

[Donna Lee Nardo]

Ha ha, love your tag line!

[Salem]

"...I don't understand why the US thinks that what works and is right for us, is wrong and/or won't work for them."

And there it is in a nut shell. What a double standard. The Israelis -- more specifically, the JEWS -- are still second class citizens in the eyes of the international community...and even particulars within the U.S.

Thing is, I don't think they're going to tolerate it much longer. Their national mindset just doesn't strike me as being condusive to being led to the slaughter as in centuries past.

They have guns now. Big ones. And they know how to use them.

[Salem]

"I ask ALL at FreeRepublic to give President Bush the same support and faith in this endeavor as we have given the President's decisions WRT war ... My prayer continues to be, 'Thy Will be done'."

I'm a solid Bush supporter myself and would hope more than anyone else he could take the brass ring on this one, but the Bush Administration is going to get burned on Jerusalem, all good intentions notwithstanding.

So we pray ... and wait.

[dmeara]

That's why terrorism is the first pit stop on the course. It's both the out and the pressure on the PA. Bush can walk saying they didn't comply. The danger is not that the PA doesn't comply, it's that the Administration accepts half-measures. This not being the Clintoon years, I think it's a reasonable expectation that this reality on the PA will prevail. If it doesn't, the President has a legitimate and convenient back door.

Agreed. This is a clever continuation of administration policy as laid out by President Bush in a speech last year. It puts the onus squarely on the PA, but will not result in a Palestinian state, or necessarily peace in the region for the foreseeable future.

There is a pattern here. They are making the Palestinians an offer they cannot and will not accept, much as they did to the Taliban when they asked them to cough up Al Qaeda, and to Saddam when they demanded unfettered weapons inspections.

It will only work to reveal the intransigence of the Palestinian position.

[nicollo]

There is a pattern here. They are making the Palestinians an offer they cannot and will not accept, much as they did to the Taliban when they asked them to cough up Al Qaeda, and to Saddam when they demanded unfettered weapons inspections.

Precisely. This Administration has been brilliant, genius, at forcing its opponents to the full logic of their positions. France and Russia did as much to bring about the Iraq war as Saddam himself. The President gave them every opportunity to avoid it.

The same will play out with the Palestinians, as you say. I see it working to the positive rather than the negative. The key is, unlike Oslo, if it fails it falls of its own weight, and it doesn't bring us down with it. Therefore, I think it will work. The Pallies will have no choice but to play ball.

I also think that this will all result in a free Lebanon, free of Syria, Hezbolla & Co. If it doesn't, there's no resolution; it either does or it doesn't.

[bart99]

Phase I - Security
"+Palestinians declare an unequivocal end to violence and terrorism and undertake visible efforts on the ground to arrest, disrupt, and restrain individuals and groups conducting and planning violent attacks on Israelis anywhere.

+Rebuilt and refocused Palestinian Authority security apparatus begins sustained, targeted, and effective operations aimed at confronting all those engaged in terror and dismantlement of terrorist capabilities and infrastructure. This includes commencing confiscation of illegal weapons and consolidation of security authority, free of association with terror and corruption. "

---

Now I get it. The PA is supposed to do what the Isralies have been doing for the past two years. I'm sure they have the equipment necessary. And after each homicde bombing they all go "opps". *sigh*
Good luck......... works (in theory) for me.

[priceofreedom]

THIS IS LIKE A COMPLICATED GAME OF TRUTH OR DARE. DARE THE PALIS TO CHANGE, OR FIND OUT WHAT I KNOW IS THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO ME IS THAT THE PALESTINIANS (AND THE ARAB WORLD AS A WHOLE) CANNOT STAND THE FACT THAT A DEMOCRACY AND WHATS WORSE IS EVERYTIME THE ARABS ATTACK ISRAEL THEY LOSE. CAN YOU IMAGINE BEING 5 LARGE NATIONS AND BEING BEATEN REPEATEDLY BY A SPECK ON THE MAP? IT DOESNT MAKE FOR A FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD ATMOSPHERE. IN MY OPINION WE WILL NOT SEE TRUE PEACE SHOWN ON THE PART OF THE ARABS TOWARDS THE ISRAELI'S IN MY LIFETIME, ALL I CAN HOPE FOR IS THE SAFETY OF MY FAMILY, MY COUSINS SERVING IN THE MILITARY AND THOSE WHO ARE CIVILLIANS.....MAY G-D WATCH OVER THEM!!!!!!

[priceofreedom]

THIS IS LIKE A COMPLICATED GAME OF TRUTH OR DARE. DARE THE PALIS TO CHANGE, OR FIND OUT WHAT I KNOW IS THE TRUTH. THE TRUTH ACCORDING TO ME IS THAT THE PALESTINIANS (AND THE ARAB WORLD AS A WHOLE) CANNOT STAND THE FACT THAT A DEMOCRACY (ESPECIALLY ONE RUN BY THE ZIONIST INFIDELS) AND WHATS WORSE IS EVERYTIME THE ARABS ATTACK ISRAEL THEY LOSE. CAN YOU IMAGINE BEING 5 LARGE NATIONS AND BEING BEATEN REPEATEDLY BY A SPECK ON THE MAP? IT DOESNT MAKE FOR A FRIENDLY NEIGHBORHOOD ATMOSPHERE. IN MY OPINION WE WILL NOT SEE TRUE PEACE SHOWN ON THE PART OF THE ARABS TOWARDS THE ISRAELI'S IN MY LIFETIME, ALL I CAN HOPE FOR IS THE SAFETY OF MY FAMILY, MY COUSINS SERVING IN THE MILITARY AND THOSE WHO ARE CIVILLIANS.....MAY G-D WATCH OVER THEM!!!!!!

[HAL9000]

This will be a difficult process, but I have strong confidence in President Bush. He is the leader most likely to find a workable solution for peace in the Middle East.

[bart99]

You are referring to the six day war, I presume. Well, Egypt and Jordan have since signed peace treaties with Israel.... and have accepted their "right to exsist". Other countries have not...... and that's a condition of the roadmap for the PA to do. I don't expect that even if they do, they'll live up to it. But, any success of peace in the region is not dependent on the PA, but on it's neighbors - like Syria, Lebanon, (Iraq is no longer a problem), and others. If syria, for example, actually gives up their occupation of lebanon, and does away with all terrorist support, etc, etc...... that will have more effect on peace than what the PA does.

I don't believe peace is going to come by 2005. Maybe never. But..... if any kind of WMD hits Israel, Israel is ready to retaliate quite directly. They aren't going to 'negotiate'..... they'll use their nukes on Damascus and others if necessary. They have nothing to lose but their country. And I 'think' their neighbors know this. Which is why the "homicide attacks" are as much of violence that anyone will do. Imagine what would happen if rockets started raining down on Israel from Hezbollah located in Lebonon. Israel isn't going to just 'talk'..... and that's what scares the hell out of Damascus, since they control Lebanon.

The roadmap is DOA I'm afraid. Arafat has to be gone first. And other countries must sign the peace treaties. The PA isn't even a state - they can't sign a thing. But.... I'm willing to watch.

[bart99]

"This will be a difficult process, but I have strong confidence in President Bush. He is the leader most likely to find a workable solution for peace in the Middle East."

---

You have more confidence than I do. As mentioned in earlier posts in this thread, Bush left himself a way out by demanding a cessation to terrorism as a condition for peace. Even IF the PA would be willing to stop instigating their "homicide bombings", the terrorist groups won't stop. Hence the other countries in the region must be willing to fight their own and quell the terrorist groups. That is what complicates the entire process.