BREAKING ON FOX....CHINESE SUB DOWN. 70 KIA....

Fox News Channel ^ | 5/2/03 | section9

[section9]

Breaking from FOX.

Chicom sub, apparently a diesel-electric, has had an accident. 70 Chinese seamen are apparently dead. I do not know if the sub itself has surfaced or was lost with all hands, as was the Kursk.

Nothing else follows...

Be Seeing You,

Chris

[ewing]

Chinese Authorites say it is non-nuke on CNN..

[Jeff Head]

Probably a Kilo, but could be their Song or Ming class. The Ming is essentially an old Russian Romeo class.

[hchutch]

Pretty modern sub in that case.

They have a lot of the Romeo/Ming class subs, though.

[agenda_express]

What is this "CNN" you speak of? I am not familiar with it - is it the Chinese News Network?

[Grampa Dave]

[ewing]

The Clinton/Chinese/Communist News Network?

[reg45]

What a tragedy! It was on it's way to the US to deliver $10 million to the DNC.

[Atlas Sneezed]

Wang Wei's brother, Captain Wet Wei?

[JudgeAmint]

BREAKING NEWS...

FIRST PHOTOS OF SUB AVAILABLE....

[John H K]

Probably a Kilo, but could be their Song or Ming class.

Considering their handful of Kilos is greatly outnumbered, by over a 10-1 ratio, by their large fleet ancient Romeo knockoffs, I can't quite see how it is "probably a Kilo" without further information.

[Orangedog]

Besides-the Kursk was brought down by her own torpedo.

specifically the Hydrogen Paroxide in the Torpedo that was the cause.

Wasn't there some talk of the Kursk incident may have been caused while testing a super-cavitating torpedo? The thought of Russia or the Chinese have a torpedo that can travel under water at over 600 mph is unsettling.

[John H K]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&ncid=564&e=1&u=/nm/20030502/ts_nm/china_submarine_dc

BEIJING (Reuters) - An accident on board a Chinese conventional submarine has killed all of its 70 officers and crew, the official Xinhua news agency said on Friday.

The accident, which occurred in Chinese territorial waters in recent days, was caused by mechanical problems during training, Xinhua said but gave no further details or a date.

It was one of the worst naval accidents in Communist China's history, a military source said.

"Unfortunately, all 70 men and officers aboard the submarine died," Xinhua said. The submarine has been towed to an unidentified port, Xinhua added.

In the mid-1980s, a destroyer exploded near the southern island province of Hainan killing nearly 100 people.

The Central Military Commission sent its condolences to families of officers and crew, it said.


The 2.5 million-strong People's Liberation Army has a fleet of about 90 submarines.




(BTW, that "90" number for their fleet of subs is somewhat bogus; it's actually smaller than that, they're counting some ancient non-operational subs that never go to sea.)

[John H K]

The thought of Russia or the Chinese have a torpedo that can travel under water at over 600 mph is unsettling.

What the frantic-hype articles about that torpedo usually fail to mention is that it can't turn.

[finnman69]

Kilo?

[The_Victor]

Hmmmm...

No mention of this being the fault of the United States? What's up with that?

[Daus]

Report: Sub reported sunk by a flight originating from the Abe Lincoln. The pilot reported to be a middle aged gentleman, from Texas.

:)

[Walkingfeather]

It doesn't need to turn. point and shoot.

[IronJack]

I've read excerpts and reviews from Blind Man's Bluff. Intriguing stuff, and a story few people know.

As an aside, the actual expression is "Blind man's buff." It was an English children's game somewhat akin to "Pin the tail on the donkey." I'm sure the author used the common mistake advisedly; it is much more appropriate in the context.

[Walkingfeather]

How quickly would SARS spread in the close confines of a sub.... about 10 minutes I would think.

[Jeff Head]

Well, they have two of the Improved Kilos, and two of the older Kilos. But each carries a crew of about 52-53.

The Ming, essentially a Chinese Romeo also carries 51-52.

But their new Song class, of which they have built exactly three ... carries a crew in excess of 60. Given the reported 70 loss, I'm thinking they lost one of their three Song class sub.

Any Kilo or Song loss would be a major blow to the Chinese sub effort right now.

Here's a short description of the Song ...

This new class of SSG (Type 039, 2,250t dived) was launched in May 1994 but not commissioned until 1998. The second was commissioned in 1999. Although it still retains the stepped conning tower similar to the old Ming/Romeo class, the overall design represents a major step forward compared with the obsolete Ming class. The improvement includes a hydrodynamically sleek profile, new cylindrical bow mounted sonars and German MTU 12V 493 diesel engine. With a large asymmetrical seven-blade skewed propeller, the Song class is much quieter than its predecessor. It has been speculated that Song class is capable of launching modified YJ-8/C-801 ASMs as well as new wire-guided torpedos (Yu-6/Mk-48?) from its 533mm torpedo tubes. However, the construction of Type 039 appeared to have ended after the launch of the first boat due to serious problems encountered onboard. As the result, all future boats being constructed are the improved Song Type 039A, the first of which (321) finished the sea trial and entered the PLAN service at the end of 2001. The 2nd 039A (322?) was believed to be undergoing sea trial in late 2002. This version features a more modern fin and has the stepped conning tower removed making it similar to French Agosta-90B in external appearance. It might be fitted with an AIP system believed to have been tested onboard a Ming class SS.

Another point of interest, that might allude to a loss of a Kilo is this tidbit I picked up on the Sotrpages.com site regarding the Chinese Kilos.

However the first two 877EKM (364, 365) subs were reportedly to have suffered mechanical problems (damaged batteries and generators) caused by the inexperienced crew, and were inoperational for several months. The latest report claimed that China ordered 8 Type 636s to be armed with the new Club-S series (3M54E, range 300km at Mach 0.8) SLCMs from Russia in May 2002, a move considered as China's response to Taiwan's order of 8 diesel subs from US. The contract worths $1.5b and will be fulfilled within 5 years, reflecting PLAN's urgency to build a credible submarine force against potential threats from US and Japanese naval forces.