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Joe McCarthy Secret Hearings to Be Unveiled Monday
Yahoo! News ^ | 5/4/03 | Joanne Kenen - Reuters

Posted on 05/04/2003 9:51:54 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -

Fifty years after Sen. Joe McCarthy conducted some of the most infamous hearings in Senate history, thousands of pages of his secret probes into alleged Communist subversion will finally be made public.

Some 5,000 pages of 1953-1954 closed-door hearings from McCarthy's Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations will be released Monday by Carl Levin, a Michigan Democrat, and Susan Collins, a Maine Republican. Levin and Collins have both chaired McCarthy's former committee during the past two years as the documents were prepared for release.

They plan to issue them in the same Senate hearing room where McCarthy himself once held court.

Historians believe the five volumes of transcripts will shed light on what many regard as one of the most shameful episodes in Senate history -- a time when Cold War anxiety about the Soviet Union, Communist China and a perceived domestic Communist threat led to political witch hunts at home.

"This is the first time historians have had access to raw documentation," said Donald Ritchie, the associate Senate historian. "I think it will really stimulate scholarship. They'll have much more substantive information to go on."

Most of the people who took part in the hearings are now dead.

McCarthy himself, a Wisconsin Republican who catapulted himself to fame with his headline-grabbing but ultimately fabricated allegations of vast Communist conspiracies tainting the State Department, the Government Printing Office and parts of the U.S. military, died in 1957. He was censured by the Senate in 1954.

McCarthy's most notorious hearings, the Army-McCarthy hearings, were held in public and the secret portions of that investigation were released long ago.

The very public nature of the army hearings -- they were among the first televised -- helped bring about McCarthy's downfall as ordinary people saw his reckless and brutal behavior as he impugned the loyalty of the U.S. Army.

But before McCarthy was brought down, he brought down scores of people, historians say. Many had some degree of leftist politics or sympathies in their past, but none were traitors or spies.

The documents being made public now were the hearings he held behind closed doors. Some of those witnesses were later called before public panels, where McCarthy asked his trademark question, "Are you now or have you ever been a Communist?"

But some of the secret witnesses were never called again in public. But they didn't necessarily stay secret either. McCarthy often briefed reporters on the secret proceedings -- at least his version of the proceedings. Many people's careers were destroyed simply because he had summoned them to testify.




TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: bewaretheredmenace; commies; communism; communists; fifthcolumn; fifthcolumnists; hearings; kgbfiles; lovedstalin; mccarthy; mccarthywasright; mediabias; prostalin; reddupes; redmenace; secret; socialists; stalinsusefulidiots; stillathreattoday; theredmenace; unveiled; usefulidiots; venona
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Senate Historian Donald Ritchie sits in his Capitol Hill office Friday, Feb. 7, 2003.  Ritchie assembled the 4,000 pages of closed door transcripts from the McCarthy hearings that are scheduled to be released Monday, May 5, 2002 in Washington.  (AP Photo/Dennis Cook)
Sun May 4,11:28 PM ET

Senate Historian Donald Ritchie sits in his Capitol Hill office Friday, Feb. 7, 2003. Ritchie assembled the 4,000 pages of closed door transcripts from the McCarthy hearings that are scheduled to be released Monday, May 5, 2002 in Washington. (AP Photo/Dennis Cook)

Sen. Joe McCarthy, R-Wis.,  presides at a hearing of the Senate Investigations Subcommittee, in Washington,  in this March 10, 1954 file photo.  Seated at right is committee counsel Roy Cohn. The Senate is expected to release 4,000 pages of closed-door transcripts Monday, May 5, 2003 in Washington.  (AP Photo/File)
Sun May 4,11:27 PM ET

Sen. Joe McCarthy, R-Wis., presides at a hearing of the Senate Investigations Subcommittee, in Washington, in this March 10, 1954 file photo. Seated at right is committee counsel Roy Cohn. The Senate is expected to release 4,000 pages of closed-door transcripts Monday, May 5, 2003 in Washington. (AP Photo/File)


1 posted on 05/04/2003 9:51:55 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
It's always nice to hear only one side of a story from an objective journalist.
2 posted on 05/04/2003 9:58:27 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY (((Better dead than Red)))
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To: NormsRevenge
If you're still an unbeliever,

<a href="http://www.thenewamerican.com/focus/people/vo03no10_mccarthy.htm>this</a> is an excellent article vindicating one Mr. Joe McCarthy.

3 posted on 05/04/2003 10:14:12 PM PDT by sackofcatfood
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To: sackofcatfood
And this is a very convenient embedded URL to the article which was mysteriously absent from my last post. :p
4 posted on 05/04/2003 10:16:33 PM PDT by sackofcatfood
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Lol....that Levin and Collins are releasing this doesn't bode well.

The documents which should be released are from hearings held by the state of California before the Hollywood Ten were called before HUAC. They took the fifth before Congress because they were afraid of being charged with perjury in California.
5 posted on 05/04/2003 10:22:18 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Ping
6 posted on 05/04/2003 10:23:40 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi .. Support FRee Republic)
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To: NormsRevenge
This should be interesting. My entire life I have heard nothing but bad things about McCarthy, I would very much like to hear the other side of the story.
7 posted on 05/04/2003 10:35:48 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: ladyinred
The communists have been in this country for more years then the media elite will ever admit or report.

The link that sackofcatfood posted is a good read. It has 40 Q&As that , in a nutshell, give a good overview of what went down, starting in the 30s.

If you have the time, check out

John Birch - A Patriotic Exemplar

There is a whole side of history the masses have never been exposed to.



8 posted on 05/04/2003 10:43:28 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi .. Support FRee Republic)
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To: NormsRevenge
But before McCarthy was brought down, he brought down scores of people, historians say. Many had some degree of leftist politics or sympathies in their past, but none were traitors or spies.

?

McCarthy had a bad influence on this country, by discrediting anti-Communism, but not everyone he went after was pure as the driven snow! These bastards want to rewrite history.

9 posted on 05/04/2003 10:45:50 PM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: DPB101
Historians believe the five volumes of transcripts will shed light on what many regard as one of the most shameful episodes in Senate history -- a time when Cold War anxiety about the Soviet Union, Communist China and a perceived domestic Communist threat led to political witch hunts at home.

According to Leftist media revisionists, Stalin with nuclear weapons was nothing to worry about. Mao murdering millions was nothing to worry about. The Rosenbergs were victims of a "Witch Hunt." A witch hunt implies that something does not exist. Real witches don't exist. Communists who were allies of Stalin and Mao did exist, and still exist in this country. They were dedicated to the overthrow of our system of government. They are still working towards that same goal. The Anti-War demontraitors of today are products of the Marxist brainwashing machine that has been active for decades.

10 posted on 05/04/2003 10:54:00 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY (((Better dead than Red)))
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To: Free ThinkerNY
a perceived domestic Communist threat led to political witch hunts at home

ChiComs and Russkies with bags of money bought our nations secrets and the Clintons and the demRats benefited directly.

Where IS the outrage?

And now we will have, Revisionist History for DUmmies, The Sequel.... slurped up by the blind following the lead of the A.N.S.W.E.R. gang.

To which I say, It's a FRee country still.... If We have anything to say about it.

11 posted on 05/04/2003 11:03:36 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi .. Support FRee Republic)
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To: NormsRevenge
McCarthy himself, a Wisconsin Republican who catapulted himself to fame with his headline-grabbing but ultimately fabricated allegations of vast Communist conspiracies tainting the State Department, the Government Printing Office and parts of the U.S. military, died in 1957.

I would argue, and I think that history has proven, that with the State Department, at least, there were no fabrications necessary.

12 posted on 05/04/2003 11:05:26 PM PDT by denydenydeny
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To: ladyinred
Then you should read some books, lately pblished about McCarthy and those times. Need a book list ? :-)
13 posted on 05/04/2003 11:08:37 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: denydenydeny
Starting with Alger Hiss.
14 posted on 05/04/2003 11:10:03 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: NormsRevenge
Revisionist History for DUmmies, The Sequel

That book would look good in the window of a Progressive (Marxist) bookstore. Along side "Stupid Commie White Men."

15 posted on 05/04/2003 11:15:33 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY (((Better dead than Red)))
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To: Free ThinkerNY
Here! Here! Your succinct observations well spoken. The truth is Joe McCarthy was a true American patriot who tried to wake up America to the rampant communism on our shores, especially in unHolywood. He was discredited by the liberals/Democrats/communists. No doubt, he will continue to be denigrated. Oh, that we could truly become free from all the lies and spinning!
16 posted on 05/04/2003 11:23:39 PM PDT by democratsstealvotes
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To: denydenydeny
How the State Department gave the world Fidel Castro:

U.S. Senate: Testimony of Arthur Gardner and Earl E.T.Smith

State was listening to the New York Times, not the American ambassador to Cuba.

17 posted on 05/04/2003 11:26:00 PM PDT by DPB101
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To: All
Where there are people who care, there is hope.

Let the debunking begin of this bygone era that, even today, has had such wide-reaching ramifications in the world we live in today.

We shall see how the media, if they touch this at all, spin the truth to their cohorts advantage.

18 posted on 05/04/2003 11:36:24 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi .. Support FRee Republic)
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To: NormsRevenge; All
McCarthy's most notorious hearings, the Army-McCarthy hearings, were held in public and the secret portions of that investigation were released long ago.

And the central QUESTION which prompted the retalitory Army - McCarthy Hearings WAS and STILL IS...

WHO PROMOTED PEREZ???????

19 posted on 05/04/2003 11:44:08 PM PDT by Lael (Well, I Guess he DIDN'T go wobbly in the legs!! Now, "W", lets do the REST of the AXIS of EVIL!!)
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To: NormsRevenge
"...he brought down scores of people, historians say. Many had some degree of leftist politics or sympathies in their past, but none were traitors or spies."

Bull$#!t!

Communists are traitors by their very nature.

20 posted on 05/04/2003 11:51:34 PM PDT by GunRunner
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To: democratsstealvotes
To be free of all the lies and spinning we have to fight the Leftist lamestream media and Marxist thought police who seem to control the universities and much of the public education system. Much progress has been made in recent years with Fox News Channel and on talk radio, but more needs to be done. Free Republic is playing a great role in getting information out that the Leftist media wants to hide.
21 posted on 05/05/2003 12:15:25 AM PDT by Free ThinkerNY (((Better dead than Red)))
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To: NormsRevenge
The film "Citizen Cohn" with James Woods, portrayed McCarthy's downfall as being in great measure due to Roy Cohn. It implied the the Army-McCarthy hearings, which did not go so well for McCarthy, were instigated by Cohn after the Army refused to give special treatment to David Schine, with whom Cohn had a homosexual infatuation. Anyone care to comment on the probability that this is historically accurate?

Whatever success McCarthy may have had in weeding out communists, I believe that it is generally accepted that he claimed falsely to have been a tailgunner in World War II and that he may not actually have had a list of 205 communists when he made his Wheeling speech. Perhaps someone can also comment on whether these items are true and how they should be seen in an overall interpretation of McCarthy.

22 posted on 05/05/2003 12:39:02 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: NormsRevenge
Of course when a certain witch did her own hunting against a vast right wing conspiracy, the media supported her assertions.
23 posted on 05/05/2003 12:57:15 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS: CNN let human beings be tortured and killed to keep their Baghdad bureau open)
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To: NormsRevenge
They will be liberally leftest redacted to protect the guilty and impugn the innocent.

Oh goodie. Does this mean they will soon be releasing the secrete files on ML King.
24 posted on 05/05/2003 1:09:30 AM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: wideminded
I believe that it is generally accepted that he claimed falsely to have been a tailgunner in World War II

Apparently Admiral Nimitz thought that McCarthy was a tailgunner.

Admiral Chester Nimitz, commander-in-chief of the Pacific Fleet, issued the following citation regarding the service of Captain McCarthy:

For meritorious and efficient performance of duty as an observer and rear gunner of a dive bomber attached to a Marine scout bombing squadron operating in the Solomon Islands area from September 1 to December 31, 1943. He participated in a large number of combat missions, and in addition to his regular duties, acted as aerial photographer. He obtained excellent photographs of enemy gun positions, despite intense anti-aircraft fire, thereby gaining valuable information which contributed materially to the success of subsequent strikes in the area. Although suffering from a severe leg injury, he refused to be hospitalized and continued to carry out his duties as Intelligence Officer in a highly efficient manner. His courageous devotion to duty was in keeping with the highest traditions of the naval service.

I dunno.... you think Admiral Nimitz was delirious or something?

25 posted on 05/05/2003 1:14:02 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: ladyinred
My entire life I have heard nothing but bad things about McCarthy

I was exposed to exactly the opposite :-)

My grandmother and Joe McCarthy were very good friends.

26 posted on 05/05/2003 1:19:57 AM PDT by RadioAstronomer
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To: NormsRevenge
catapulted himself to fame with his headline-grabbing but ultimately fabricated allegations of vast Communist conspiracies tainting the State Department, the Government Printing Office and parts of the U.S. military

Uh huh.

Many had some degree of leftist politics or sympathies in their past, but none were traitors or spies.

Uh huh.
Tell it like it ain't!

27 posted on 05/05/2003 1:25:38 AM PDT by ARepublicanForAllReasons ("Think logically, act globally" -- Bush the Younger)
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To: All
Tailgunner Joe--Patriot Whistleblower or Right-Wing Witch-hunter?
28 posted on 05/05/2003 1:38:55 AM PDT by backhoe (Just an old keyboard cowboy, ridin' the trackball into the sunset...)
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To: wideminded; Lancey Howard
The claim McCarthy was not a tailgunner is typical of socialist slander. There is a slim, technical element of truth in it. McCarthy was an intelligence officer. But he volunteered to be and was a tailgunner on many combat missions.
29 posted on 05/05/2003 1:51:04 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: NormsRevenge
Does anyone remember when the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg
trails went on for espionage? Was it about the time of
the McCarthy hearings? I was just a kid at that time
and remember hearing about McCarthy - my folks always
said there were many subversives in the country planing
the overthrow of the United States.
You mention A.N.S.W.E.R - definitely a communist/socialist
group. In my opinion, they have been pretty busy little
people. After all:

1. No more loyalty oaths
2. God is out of the classroom and just about everywhere
else
3. Abortion is the law of the land - so murder is
condoned - "a womans right to choose" - if she were
about to jump off a bridge in a suicide attempt, would
she be allowed to choose?
4. Textbooks are being rewritten avoiding much of our
American History - now the term Founding Fathers is
going to be dropped.
5. Teachers and College Professors are extremely left
wing and kill any conservative comments in the
classroom.
6. Anti-war protests that are extreme - that help the
enemy.
7. Children are taken away from their parents on a whim.
In California the Teachers Union wants all kids that
are home schooled or in private schools to be considered
truant and can, therefore, be taken away from parents
because of child abuse. Also, kids can ruin the lives
of their parents, teachers or anyone else because they
are upset with them. I know of one case where, because
the kid didn't get what he wanted, called the police
on his father. The trouble that poor man had was
unbelievable. Reminds of the Brownshirts - the kids
in Germany while the Nazis were in power. I know that
mention of this has probably been dropped from books.

I could go on and on but, thought someone else might like
to comment on how we are sliding toward a socialistic/
communist state. Bring back McCarthy!



30 posted on 05/05/2003 2:03:32 AM PDT by AnimalLover
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To: NormsRevenge
McCarthy himself, a Wisconsin Republican who catapulted himself to fame with his headline-grabbing but ultimately fabricated allegations of vast Communist conspiracies tainting the State Department, the Government Printing Office and parts of the U.S. military, died in 1957. He was censured by the Senate in 1954.

The worst part about this is he was right all along he just didnt have the power to do anything about it NOW most democrats in office are communists by deed and signature and arent afraid to admit it and still republicans and conservatives are doomed to repeat history and from the looks of things its only gonna get worse .

Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35

January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

31 posted on 05/05/2003 2:03:54 AM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK (("He is a moss-gatherer, and I have been a stone doomed to rolling." Gandalf))
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To: Lancey Howard
Apparently Admiral Nimitz thought that McCarthy was a tailgunner.

This website: http://www.foxvalleyhistory.org/mccarthy/ has a picture of the letter from Nimitz with this caption:

"McCarthy showed this letter to the press and voters while campaigning for Senate in 1944. He had requested the recognition, likely writing his own letter of recommendation and forging the signature of his commanding officer."

The website details an exhibition on McCarthy that appeared in his hometown historical society museum.

Some other websites suggest that he injured his foot while in the service but was never actually wounded as suggested in the "citation". I am withholding final judgement until I learn more.

32 posted on 05/05/2003 2:11:38 AM PDT by wideminded
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To: AnimalLover; All
Excellent post!!!

On Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, in the Spring of 1943 the USA sent, via the Lend-Lease program, tens of tons of nuclear materials - including enriched uranium. The head of Lend-Lease was Harry "the hop" Hopkins - known today as Soviet agent #19 - from the Venona Project.

Hopkins was FDR's alter-ego ... FDR giving us the socialist United States that we have today.

Truth, Justice, and the American Way!

33 posted on 05/05/2003 3:00:24 AM PDT by jamaksin
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To: jamaksin
Funny you should mention Harry Hopkins. There was a book published soon after the war by a staff Major that worked in lend-lease, and in it he made the charge that Hopkins was a traitor and a Soviet agent.

The book was called something like "Major Jones's Story," but unfortunately, I forget the key bit of information, the Major's actual name (it wasn't Jones!). I read the book many years later, when I was in high school in the seventies. I found the case against Hopkins persuasive if not conclusive, and the case against the Rosenbergs as well... in the nineties the Venona releases pretty much sealed the case on Hopkins, Hiss, and the Rosenbergs. Of course, the media and academia still report on these traitors as if they were innocent.

You may not be aware but NSA has re-classified the Venona intercepts, and they are no longer available on the website. I believe that they have been unable to suppress the book that was written based on them. I have no idea why they did this, but presume there was something in there that provided a clue to sources and methods that are still useful -- that's usually the intel agencies' biggest security concern.

Finally, for anyone interested in this era, a great movie was made in the early sixties. It's black and white as it tries to evoke the fifties. The Manchurian Candidate. Frank Sinatra (!) turns in a great performance as an Army counterintelligence officer... there's a McCarthy character, and standing behind him is Angela Lansbury playing his wife... a Hillary Clinton character. The "good" senator is implicitly a Republican (as is the McCarthy figure). Not historically accurate, by any means, but a hell of a work of entertainment.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

34 posted on 05/05/2003 6:12:53 AM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: Criminal Number 18F
Here are the books on Venona. I can only recommend the first personally. It busts the Rosenbergs, Hiss, Hopkins and most of the other "controversial" accused communists. The second one appears at a glance to be written a little more accessibly for people who aren't espionage freaks. The links are to the books' pages at Amazon.com. There is a 44 page excerpt of The Venona Secrets and a 24 page excerpt of Venona: Decoding Soviet Espionage there, including the entire index. There are also some used copies of the older Secrets available there, if money's tight.

Incidentally, there is a tantalizing clue to the genesis of Venona in Leo Marks's Between Silk and Cyanide but that's all I'll say about it (cryptology is a hobby of mine).

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

35 posted on 05/05/2003 6:34:34 AM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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To: NormsRevenge
With the declassification of Venona, McCarthy has been proven right more often than not. I will be interested to see what is in his files and how much the libs have bawlderized.
36 posted on 05/05/2003 6:57:20 AM PDT by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: ladyinred
Try McCarthy and His Enemies by William F. Buckley and Brent Bozell. You will have to go to a library to find this one.
37 posted on 05/05/2003 6:57:37 AM PDT by ExpandNATO
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To: nopardons
And Harry Dexter White, and Lawrence Duggan, and the Rosenbergs...
38 posted on 05/05/2003 6:59:17 AM PDT by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: wideminded
"McCarthy showed this letter to the press and voters while campaigning for Senate in 1944. He had requested the recognition, likely writing his own letter of recommendation and forging the signature of his commanding officer."

I am withholding final judgement until I learn more.

LOL, if you believe that, then I question your "judgement".

39 posted on 05/05/2003 7:00:41 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Criminal Number 18F
the other freaky thing about the communist smear of McCarthy was that they assumed McCarthy senate hearings were a set up in the same way that the Russian show trials were a set up for mass murder.

This was not the case. Nor was it ever in the cards.

What was the case was that at the time Stalin was gearing up for a pogrom in what was later to be known as the "Doctor's Plot". The historical evidence suggests that this would have happened had not Stalin died.

As it is the number of Spies that McCarthy talked about fairly well matched the number of spies that the Venona cables outed and intimated. (I think the confirmed spies were something like 100 and the number of spies that the cables pointed to--but couldn't name--was something like 400.)

The national security agency told the FBI about the information contained on the Venonoa cables but insisted that the FBI had to develop their own information to make the cases against the spies. They couldn't use NSA info to convict them. In most of the cases the FBI was unable to do so. People like the Rosenburgs and the Hiss's were the exception.

Did the FBI tell McCarthy about the Venona intercepts? There is no evidence that this happened. But the coincidences seem strong enough to suggest that time may eventually tell a bit more about that angle.

The really grisly part of this story is that the Russian KGB had a spy in the NSA decoding department who told the Russians that their diplomatic code had been broken in 1948. So the Russians knew. And the Americans learned about the spy soon after. (he fled the country first.)

That means that both Russian and American intelligence knew about the facts behind Venona and McCarthy and they knew that each other knew.

It was the US public that was left in the dark. And this has been the cause of unbelievably bitter divisions in the country since.

40 posted on 05/05/2003 7:02:21 AM PDT by ckilmer
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To: wideminded
I think that assessment is pretty close.
41 posted on 05/05/2003 7:03:44 AM PDT by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: wideminded
Hope you hold judgement on how LBJ got his Silver Star.
42 posted on 05/05/2003 7:06:29 AM PDT by cynicom
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To: Criminal Number 18F
McCarthy himself, a Wisconsin Republican...

Was it 1944 that McCarthy switched over from the Democrat Party so that he could run in the Republican Primary?

43 posted on 05/05/2003 7:07:57 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: ckilmer
they assumed McCarthy senate hearings were set up in the same way that the Russian show trials were set up for mass murder.

"Whoever could get his case before a court was generally assured of meeting there with a level of justice no smaller than at any time in recent American history."
-George Kennan

44 posted on 05/05/2003 7:10:24 AM PDT by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis
My exact thoughts upon seeing that the papers were going to be released. Carl Levin?!? Give me a break!
45 posted on 05/05/2003 7:10:36 AM PDT by ImpotentRage
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To: ladyinred
http://www.opinioninc.com/aim101496.html
46 posted on 05/05/2003 7:12:42 AM PDT by Axenolith (I wish I may, I wish I might ...have pizza for my dinner tonight.)
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To: wideminded
He was my uncle Bob McCormick's tent-mate on Guadalcanal, and my uncle said he was a great guy. He also told me that the Marines used to smash their rifle butts in the Japs teeth during interrogation.
47 posted on 05/05/2003 7:13:08 AM PDT by seamas
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To: ckilmer
Did the FBI tell McCarthy about the Venona intercepts?

No way! McCarthy was a notorious blabbermouth, especially when he had been drinking.

48 posted on 05/05/2003 7:13:10 AM PDT by nonliberal (Taglines? We don't need no stinkin' taglines!)
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To: Free ThinkerNY
"Communists who were allies of Stalin and Mao did exist, and still exist in this country. They were dedicated to the overthrow of our system of government. They are still working towards that same goal. "

2 words: Michael Moore.
49 posted on 05/05/2003 7:26:08 AM PDT by uncbuck ("Lady, I'm not an athlete, I'm a baseball player." -- John Kruk)
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To: ckilmer
I'm not aware of any spy that was aware of Venona. The venona intercepts were made possible because the Soviets couldn't get new one-time pads to their far-flung stations. So the stations re-used one time pads. The technical fact is that a random one-time pad is mathematically provable as unbreakable -- at a depth of one. If you reuse a one-time pad, as the Soviets had to, it becomes a VERY possible thing to break it.

Most of the Venona intercepts were espionage traffic (KGB). That's why it gives such a great insight into the McCarthy era spies, most of whom were recruited in the thirties when the USSR seemed like the New Deal taken to its logical conclusion. Only the true believers among them still worked for the Soviets after the show trials (meaning, ALL of them betrayed us during the World War).

Just because breaking a one-time pad at a depth of two is possible. is not the same thing as saying it is trivial. In the raw breaks, once available on NSA's website, there are a lot of incomplete messages and uncertain areas. And... while we have (or had) the entire Venona intercepts, the counterspies of the forties and fifties didn't. The Venona intercepts are a body of work that was building until (IIRC) 1981, and even the low-hanging fruit were just coming exploitable in the McCarthy era (at least, if you discount the fact that GCHQ was working on them when it was still Bletchley Park. Nothing from that period has been or will be declassified).

The NSA spies I'm aware of, except for Pelton and Pollard, were low-echelon guys who were working in the military, collecting end of the agency. All Venona related stuff took place, as far as I can tell, at HQ.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

50 posted on 05/05/2003 7:34:25 AM PDT by Criminal Number 18F
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