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Concealed-carry bill passes House; fight looms over probable veto [plus KC Red Star Editorial]
The Kansas City Star ^ | Tuesday, May 6, 2003 | TIM HOOVER

Posted on 05/06/2003 5:16:20 AM PDT by TroutStalker

The House gave final approval Monday to a bill allowing Missourians to carry concealed handguns, sending the measure to Gov. Bob Holden, who has promised to veto it.

"It's time that we join the 35 other states that...allow their citizens to protect themselves when they're outside their homes," said Rep. Larry Crawford, the Centertown Republican who sponsored the bill.

Each chamber overwhelmingly signed off on the measure by margins that suggested it would have enough support to override a Holden veto. That support, however, could shift between now and September, when the General Assembly will convene for its veto session.

The House approved a Senate version of the legislation that made only one significant change: Missourians would have to be 23 instead of 21 to get a permit to carry a concealed handgun.

Rep. Barbara Fraser, a St. Louis Democrat, said the Senate's amendment raising the qualifying age had created a tricky loophole in the bill. Fraser said language in the bill still would allow someone 21 or older to carry a concealed weapon in the glove box of a car.

Current law requires that a weapon in a vehicle be in plain view.

"You think it's OK for a 21-year-old to have a gun concealed in a car in front of an amusement park, but that same person would have to wait two years until they get out of the car?" Fraser asked Crawford.

Crawford said it would be better to allow people to conceal weapons in their vehicles rather than having the guns in plain view of thieves when their cars are parked.

Other lawmakers asked Crawford why the bill would keep private the list of those holding permits.

"I didn't want these people with conceal-carry endorsements (permits) to be a target for thieves," Crawford said.

Rep. Curt Dougherty, an Independence Democrat, was among a handful of Democrats who spoke in favor of the bill. He said the measure would have little effect on the number of guns among the populace.

"The people who don't want this don't have to buy the permit," Dougherty said. "Just because this law comes out doesn't mean people are going to go out and get a firearm."

Under the bill, permits would be valid for three years and would be denied to anyone with a felony or a misdemeanor conviction involving a gun or a bomb. Applications would be denied if, in the previous five years, the applicant had a misdemeanor conviction for a crime of violence or more than one conviction for drunken driving or drug possession.

Permits also could not be given to anyone who had been found mentally incompetent or who had been committed to a mental institution in the previous five years. The bill also would allow people who have concealed-carry permits issued by other states to carry concealed guns in Missouri.

Applicants also would have to undergo eight hours of training and hit a target at a distance of 21 feet with at least 15 of 20 shots.

Rep. Rick Johnson, a High Ridge Democrat, noted that the bill would allow lawmakers to get permits and carry concealed weapons into the Capitol unless the House and Senate voted to ban them. Crawford said lawmakers could vote to outlaw the weapons, but added, "If there were terrorists on the loose, we might want to change that rule back so we could carry in here."

The House passed the bill 105-40, four votes short of the number needed to override a governor's veto. However, some members were absent Monday because of tornado damage in their areas, and the measure is expected to garner the 109 votes necessary for an override.

The measure last week passed the Senate following a 12-hour filibuster spread over two days. The filibuster ended after Sen. Harold Caskey, a Butler Democrat and the bill's Senate handler, used a rare parliamentary maneuver to shut off debate. Democrats were infuriated at Caskey, who holds a party leadership position as caucus chairman.

The Senate passed the bill with the requisite 23 votes to override a veto. One of those came from Sen. Ken Jacob, a Columbia Democrat, who switched his "no" vote to "yes" in order to later call for a vote to reconsider the bill.

Caskey cut off Jacob's maneuver by quickly moving for reconsideration himself. That motion failed, preventing Jacob from doing the same thing later.

Without Jacob's "yes" vote, supporters would have to find one more senator to switch sides for an override.

To reach Tim Hoover, Jefferson City reporter, call 1-(573) 634-3565 or send e-mail to thoover@kcstar.com.

On the Web

The concealed-carry bill is H.B. 349. Bills are available on the Internet at www.house.state.mo.us.

How they voted

Here is how area representatives voted on the proposal to allow Missourians to carry concealed handguns:

• Republicans supporting the proposal: Brian Baker, Belton; Jason Brown, Platte City; Gary Dusenberg and Bryan Pratt, both of Blue Springs; Bob Johnson and Brian Yates, both of Lee's Summit; Susan Phillips, Kansas City; Rex Rector, Harrisonville; and Annie Reinhart, Liberty.

• Democrats supporting the proposal: Curt Dougherty, Independence; Ray Salva, Sugar Creek; and Mike Sager and Terry Young, both of Raytown.

• Democrats opposing the proposal: Dan Bishop, John Burnett, Marsha Campbell, Melba Curls, Cathy Jolly, Jenee Lowe, Kate Meiners, Vicki Walker and Yvonne Wilson, all of Kansas City; and Trent Skaggs, North Kansas City.

• Democrats who did not vote: Craig Bland and Sharon Sanders Brooks, both of Kansas City; Paul LeVota, Independence; and Philip Willoughby, Gladstone.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: banglist
And here is the KC Red Star's editorial:

Recognize the folly of concealed weapons

Posted on Tue, May. 06, 2003 story:PUB_DESC
Recognize the folly of concealed weapons

Early Friday morning, two men and a woman were shot to death on a Kansas City street.

Just hours later in Jefferson City, the Missouri Senate approved legislation to let residents have concealed weapons on their persons, in purses and briefcases, and in their cars.

The paradox is disturbing: While three people were shot to death, lawmakers were trying to pass concealed-carry legislation that would increase the dangers of gunplay in the state.

The Senate action, and passage of similar legislation by the House, fails to answer the fundamental question: Why does Missouri need concealed-carry legislation?

Its supporters argue that people should be allowed to defend themselves with firearms. But adults in Missouri already have the right to carry firearms and to have them in their cars or homes. We don't need to create more situations where we wonder who is carrying what.

Supporters of concealed-carry also like to talk about how often Americans use firearms in self-defense. Estimates vary from less than a million to three million times a year. No one can say for certain how often concealed weapons were used in those situations and how effective they were.

Supporters also note that 43 states already issue concealed-carry permits. But that doesn't justify bad policy.

The Missouri Senate and House still must reconcile their measures, but it seems obvious that a concealed-carry bill will soon be on Gov. Bob Holden's desk.

To his credit, Holden has said repeatedly that he would veto the bill. But supporters of the legislation have a realistic chance of overriding the veto. If the recent votes are any indication, concealed-carry supporters would have the necessary votes to override in the Senate and would need just one more vote in the House.

Encouraging people to carry hidden weapons is not a good solution to gun violence. Let's hope that at some point more of Missouri's elected representatives recognize this and reject concealed carry.


1 posted on 05/06/2003 5:16:20 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
Same old lies about concealed carry bringing blood in the streets. If there is one issue that shows the deciet of the left, it is guns and the freedom to have and carry them.
2 posted on 05/06/2003 5:25:13 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: *bang_list; Joe Brower
bang
3 posted on 05/06/2003 5:58:21 AM PDT by TroutStalker
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To: TroutStalker
I noticed that there weren't any Republicans in opposition to the CCW law. I hope the ones who are constantly saying there isn't a difference between Republicans and dems take notice.
4 posted on 05/06/2003 7:49:11 AM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker
We don't need to create more situations where we wonder who is carrying what.

Actually, yes you do. It is precisely this benefit of the doubt that protects those not carrying weapons, as the potential perpetrator cannot distinguish who has them and who doesn't, and must weigh the risks. The result? Crime goes down. I remember that the town of Chappaqua in NY (rings a bell...) tried to become a "gun free zone" and posted such on the entries to the town. The crime rate shot up, because to a criminal, a fat cat rich suburban town with a guarantee that there will be no armed resistance is like shooting puppies in a barrel, manna from heaven. Needless to say, Chappaqua quickly changed their idiotic policy.

Will Hillary insist that her bodyguards (ugh!! the very phrase makes me feel unclean!) be "gun free?" Doubt it.

5 posted on 05/06/2003 8:37:09 AM PDT by SpinyNorman
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To: TroutStalker
"The House passed the bill 105-40, four votes short of the number needed to override a governor's veto. However, some members were absent Monday because of tornado damage in their areas, and the measure is expected to garner the 109 votes necessary for an override."

awesome!

6 posted on 05/06/2003 9:35:24 AM PDT by Freedom2specul8 (Please pray for our troops.... http://anyservicemember.navy.mil/)
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To: TroutStalker
Bump
7 posted on 05/06/2003 11:07:59 AM PDT by chuknospam
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To: TroutStalker
Bump again.
8 posted on 05/06/2003 11:08:24 AM PDT by chuknospam
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To: TroutStalker
Call Governor Holden at 573-751-3222 or fax at 573-751-1495.
9 posted on 05/06/2003 2:09:39 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker
MISSOURI LTC UPDATE 5-5-2003

Historic Days for Missouri.

After 12 long years of debate, the Missouri legislature has finally put a License-to-Carry [LTC] bill on the Governor's desk.

Last friday, after 11.5 hours of filibuster, Senator Harold Caskey [bill's floor handler in the Senate] made a privileged motion to call the question [end debate and vote on the bill]. His motion broke the filibuster of seven senators.

By a vote of 23 "yes" to 7 "no" with four not voting [two were absent from the floor, one - DePasco - is ill, and one refused to vote].

Senator Caskey, with successful passage out of the Senate, then returned control of the bill to the House sponsor, Representative Larry Crawford.

Today at approximately 4:20 pm, the House also ended debate and called the question. In the end, the House truly agreed to and finally passed SS HS HCS HB349 by a vote of 105 "yes" to 40 "no" and one "present". Seventeen representatives were not present for the vote due to very severe weather that struck many parts of the state. One representative who was absent even lost his house during one of these storms.

If your representative was recorded as "absent" do NOT read anything into it. According to the last vote on this bill BEFORE it was sent to the Senate, the total votes in favor of the bill could be as high as 115 "yes" votes IF this were the veto override vote.

There are some differences between what the House passed the first time and the Senate approved version, but most were of a technical nature. The only amendment taken in the senate was one to change the age from 21 to 23 years of age.

With final passage from the House and Senate, the bill now goes to the desk of Governor Bob Holden and may be there as soon as tomorrow. For the FIRST time in twelve years, a LTC bill will land on the Governor's desk!

IF he choses to veto it right away, the override could also proceed right away. With the current "spirit" at the capitol, his veto would probably be overridden.

The bet is he will wait unitl after session IF he is to veto it so as to NOT jeapardize several other bills he DOES want to get passed.

That is good. That means we have time to convince him that his opposition is in error. That thirty-four other states cannot be wrong. That it is an issue that needs to be put to rest and can ONLY be put to rest by PASSING LTC.

If he waits til after the regular session that ends on friday May 16th, we may have to wait until September for the veto override session.

This is NOT over. We have not won... YET.

We need your help now more then ever to bring this issue home and turn it into Missouri law.

Call Governor Holden at 573-751-3222 or fax at 573-751-1495.

Politely inform the staff person that so far this year, Colorado, New Mexico and Minnesota also passed LTC reform and became the seventeenth, eighteenth and nineteenth states to debate AND PASS LTC reform since Missouri started talking about it in 1991.

It is now up to Governor Bob Holden if Missouri will move with the enlightened thirty-four total states or remain one of six that totally deny their honest citizens the ability to legally defend themselves outside the home.

It is now up to you. Call and write and fax the Governor and ask him to allow SS HS HCS HB349 to become Missouri law.

A REMINDER: Whenever you deal with an elected official, or their staff, ALWAYS BE POLITE, even if they are not. ALWAYS be brief and thank them for their time. Follow up with a nice handwritten letter too.

ALWAYS be POLITE... even if his staff is not.

More updates and more detailed information will follow. Stay tuned to our websites or sign up for these emails.

Greg Jeffery
Legislative Chairman Gateway Civil Liberties Alliance: www.gclastl.org
Legislative Coordinator Missourians for Personal Safety: www.moccw.org
Designated Part-time Spokesman Western Missouri Shooters Alliance: www.wmsa.net
10 posted on 05/06/2003 2:15:55 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Don't punch holes in the lifeboat)
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To: TroutStalker
"Just because this law comes out doesn't mean people are going to go out and get a firearm."

That's right, I won't go out and buy one.
I will go out and get a permit though.

(For those of you wondering, I don't need to buy one.)

11 posted on 05/06/2003 2:21:10 PM PDT by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: TroutStalker
This is great news, TS.

I may have to e-mail the gov's office and let him know that he will be committing political suicide if he vetos this. (As if he was actually going to win another term.)

12 posted on 05/06/2003 2:23:25 PM PDT by Just another Joe (FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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