Extension of Objectivism discussion regarding the soul

Various | Various | Various

[exmarine]

I highly recommend that you all get a copy of "The New Atheism" by Dr. Robert Morey. It is absolutely the best book I have ever read on atheism and how to debunk it. Believe me, atheists do not want you to read this book. Morey is in the tradition of Dr. Schaeffer (knew him personally) and he has debated virtually anyone who would debate him, and I do not think he has ever lost a debate. Dr. Morey is highly gifted by our Lord.

[Alamo-Girl]

I suspected you might have that comment, as I would expect it from all who are epistemologically materialist, even if they are not metaphysically materialist. But please do keep reading; I would very much like to hear all your views! Hugs!!!

[PatrickHenry]

I've skimmed the article. That doesn't begin to do it justice, considering the effort you've obviously poured into this work, but in all honesty this just isn't my kind of subject matter. I can't really focus on it. But I'm wild about you, A-Girl!

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the endorsement! For everyone interested in getting the book, here’s the Amazon listing for The New Atheism and the Erosion of Freedom

[Alamo-Girl]

Well, I'm wild about you too, PatrickHenry! Hugs!

If you ever develop an interest in the subject of soul, I'd love to explore it with you.

[exmarine]

Thank you alamo-girl. I was too lazy to go get the listing...

[unspun]

Genesis 11
The Tower of Babel
¹ Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. ² As men moved eastward, ^[1] they found a plain in Shinar ^[2] and settled there.
³ They said to each other, "Come, let's make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. ⁴ Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves and not be scattered over the face of the whole earth."

Alas, I digress without reading the article yet, but I find the above quote very analagous to your interesting observation about avoiding death. That may sound curious, but the reason is that this came after "the flood" in Biblical history -- and the people, from what commentary I've heard, found out that baking bricks made them relatively waterproof.... ;-)

The point is, that from a "Scripturalist" point of view, like the flood that came later, earthly death is a judgment from God, for man's sin. Naturally, man has the choice to turn to God in the discipline, or look for ways to avoid/postpone the judgment.

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! I just read the reviews on the Amazon listing after posting the link. It is hilarious as two of the "reviewers" attempt to rebutt Morey via commentary on Amazon. It’s the first time I’ve seen such blatant distress at an online bookstore.

[exmarine]

Yes, Morey gets that type of reaction from people! I met him - he has a church here in Orange County and a radio program called "Bob Morey Live." You should hear him interact with hostile callers. Visit his website at: www.faithdefenders.com. I also recommend his books "Islamic Invasion" and "Winning the War Against Radical Islam" - you will find them very very provocative.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the Scriptures on the bricks and for your observation:

The point is, that from a "Scripturalist" point of view, like the flood that came later, earthly death is a judgment from God, for man's sin. Naturally, man has the choice to turn to God in the discipline, or look for ways to avoid/postpone the judgment.

Indeed, and very sad...

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the additional information!

Indeed, the reactions on the Amazon reviews were so visceral, I chuckled out loud imagining villagers with pitchforks and torches seeking to burn the book.

[Kudsman]

Wow. Where to start. First, Zon and Romulus, I have conversed with you in the past, and was interested in what you said. Zon, I heard, understand and live by alot of what you say. I ping you here not to cause confrontation regarding mystic beliefs, but to futher comprehend if you choose to offer any responses. Romulus, you and I have had brief but I believe honest communications in the past. You once asked if I had any theology training because of the way I used certain words. I'm sorry I never answered that until now, but no I haven't. I only have an interest in futher developing / exploring my own spirituality.

With that out of the way I would like to make a comment and pose a question. I am fully aware of my humanity, free will, and consequential actions relating to the world I live on. However much I try to rationalize and deny my spirituality I just cannot do it. For me personally it comes down to all the reflection, emotions and thoughts at war within me as I prepare for confession and penance. The feelings overwhelm to the point of helplessness unless action is taken by myself. At that moment of breathing and giving voice to all that is troubling my soul it becomes an exhilarating avalanche of emotions that I do not want to end. Eventually it does end and when I'm given the grace, the feeling of peace is the greatest PHYSICAL experience I ever get. Afterwards when penance is completed I find that memories of my sins fade to the point of non-existance. Some of you who read this are going to call me nuts and I understand your fears, so please do so call me nuts on this forum and if I can't (or won't) try to answer your questions I'm sure others will. Thank you Alamo-girl for this post. I hope it can be discussed in a frank, honest and respectful manner.

My question is to you Zon. No matter what anyone refers to it as, do you believe it is possible to totally deny all thoughts of a oneness with a higher power other than ourselves. Once again I am asking not to judge anyone other than myself. If you would prefer, please feel free to FReepmail me with an answer.

[exmarine]

I read the reviews on Amazon too. I found the one to be very interesting. He denied that atheists believe life comes from non-life or that personality comes from non-personality, but that BEGS the question: Where do they come from from an atheist's perspective? If life didn't come from God and the atheists agrees life can't come from non-life, then where in tarnation does it come from? Same question is begged on personality. How do you get personhood from a machine? INQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!

[Alamo-Girl]

Jeepers, Kudsman! I can truly relate to your post! Thank you so very much for sharing!!!

You needn’t be concerned about people calling you “nuts” – so what if they do? Betty boop and I have both shared some rather deep spiritual experiences that may have left a few others on the forum with an eyebrow raised and tongue in cheek. Nevertheless, we know what we have personally and directly experienced. It is part of who we are and informs our thoughts.

I am very much aware of being one with the Lord, as He prayed for us in John 17. Anymore, I can see the carnal me like an adverse and separate entity abiding in the same body but having no authority. Now and again, when I’m not being diligent in the Spirit - the old me, the carnal me, gets the upper hand and I feel immediately out-of-sync – very much like the sensation you describe. Paul describes these confrontations in Romans 7 and then immediately shows our freedom in Romans 8!

Using the terminology of the above article, the nefesh is like the carnal me and the neshama the spiritual me seeking unity (Yehidah) with the Messiah. The ruach is the mechanism of my conscious choices which I strive to keep directed only upwards, but sometimes slip.

As you say, when we feel we are out-of-sync and then repent our spirits are “raptured” and divine peace floods our very being to the point that we even physically sense the wholeness, the meaning and the purpose.

What can I say but Praise God! and thank you so very much for sharing!!!

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! Thank you for your post!

Perhaps it is the extension of their denial to include the physical realm as well...

Indeed, inquiring minds want to know!

[kkindt]

Have you read the book Body & Soul: Human Nature & the Crisis of Ethics by Moreland and Rae?

here we read of a view that say:
there is no internal essence or nature that guies the process of development rather properties are added and lost in the process of growht and aging." This is called the "property-thing" view of human nature - that we aren't human if we lack certain functional properties.

The other view is the substance-dualism view which indicates there is an essence to a human person that exists at the moment of conception and that this essence causes the properties of human persons to develop if not stopped or handicapped - but that it is this essence - this soul - that has a peculiar non-physical substance that is manifesting its nature in the body that grows.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for your endorsement of the book! For everyone interested, here is the Amazon listing for Body & Soul: Human Nature & the Crisis in Ethics

[r9etb]

A typical jaw-dropping A-G compilation. Thanks!

[Alamo-Girl]

Jeepers! You're quite welcome, r9etb! Thank you for the kudos (blushing here...)

[Zon]

No matter what anyone refers to it as, do you believe it is possible to totally deny all thoughts of a oneness with a higher power other than ourselves.

Sure it's possible. There's people that do all sorts of things and then deny doing them. I wonder what the point would be for the person that has a thought and then denies having had it.