Posted on 05/09/2003 10:23:57 AM PDT by hardhead
I have turned this over in my mind for weeks now, trying to decide whether to post this or not. It is SORT OF a vanity, but not entirely. I am reading a book that I was turned on to, titled The Sword of the Prophet: Islam, history, theology, impact on the world, by Serge Trifkovic. The book has a sub-title called 'The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam'. It is published by Regina Orthodox Press and though this is a Catholic publishing house, the book is not about Catholicism but a history of how Islam began and what some political and church leaders, both Protestant and Catholic and other religions - DO NOT WANT TO HEAR - ISLAM IS NOT A RELIGION OF PEACE!
Far from me to recommend a book that will get your blood pressure up, but Serge takes apart this so-called religion, piece-by-piece. Read this at your own risk but if you have the chance, read it. A sample:
From Chapter 2, 'The Teaching': '......The Resurrection will be general and will extend to all creatures. Hell will be divided into seven regions, for faithless Muslims, for the Jews, Christians, various kinds of pagans, and "hypocrites." '
I decided not to relate any more passages from the book because of copyright and the fact that some of it is too violent or offensive, even for our firm beliefs here on the Free Republic. This is a bombshell book and though none of the information contained in it is new, it puts things in perspective. Muslims do not hate you because you are American - they hate you because you are non-Muslim. They are prepared to do whatever they have to do, to make the world into the one-world religion (theirs). This book is raw and unapologetic and, to be perfectly honest, GUTSY. Don't take my word for it but read it yourself.
Serge Trifkovic is a graduate of the University of Sussex in England. He received his PhD at the University of Southampton and his postdoctoral research on a State Department grant at the Hoover Institute at Stanford. He is also a regular contributor and, since 1998, foreign affairs editor of Chronicles: A Magazine of American Culture.
Muslims do not hate you because you are American - they hate you because you are non-Muslim.
Who says that Muslims hate you? The ones I know don't. :) As for the fanatics, the book may be spot on.
Unlike other religions like Buddhism, Mithriansim, or Zoroastrianism (which preceded Christianity), Islam clearly attempts to downplay the divinity of Christ and cast him in the role of "merely another prophet." This is errantly false -- either Christ was who he said he was, or he was mad and Christianity is a false religion. You can't have Christ as "only a prophet" and have any value to Christianity whatsoever. Therefore the very existance of Islam is clearly a direct attack on Christianity itself.
Why did I say "by their works you shall know them"? Because that is a key way to distinguish between the true light and the false light. If Islam was a valid religion, i.e. needed and required to suppliment Christianity because for some reason Christianity had failed, then we should see positive influences of Islam on cultures, and positive moral examples by the founders and leaders of Islam. But what do we really see?
(1) 1st, Mohammad was a practicing pediphile. Even within the context of his own culture taking a 9 year old wife was not a common practice. Betrothal, yes. Consummating the marriage, no! He also advocated killing and pillaging as an acceptable means of transmission of his "revelation." Plus his offspring and disciples commenced killing each other right away.
(2) The cultures "infected" with Islam are the most backwards, repressive, and cruel cultures on the face of the earth. About the only cultures to which they are superior are the atheistic Socialist/Communist totalitarian cultures. Which is faint praise indeed.
Bottom line - Islam is the adversary's first attempt to strike at and replace Christianity. By their works you shall know them! Yeah, we know them. Hopefully 9-11 is the beginning of the end for this Satan inspired bogus religion.
Would you say that Christianity is a religion that forbids divorce or contraception? The Catholics and Protestants have very different viewpoints. And there are major differences even within those main branches.
It's too long to post.
This dual religious and social character of Islam, expressing itself as a religious community commissioned by God to bring its own value system to the world through jihad (holy war or holy struggle).
Muhammad died in 632 AD and through jihad, Islam spread within a century from Spain to India. During the Muslim conquests Jews and Christians were assigned a special status as communities possessing Scriptures and are known to Muslims as "people of the Book" (ahl al-kitab) or dhimmis (protected people).
It's pretty much about having all of the worlds governments being under the laws of God, as revealed to Muhammad.
The same could be said of Christianity.
My understanding is that it depends on what part of the Koran you quote and how you quote/interpret it. Just as some would say the Old Testament's "eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth" advocated violence, and others would say the New Testament's "turn the other cheek" disagrees with it. You can argue until the mountains turn to dust about the words. The bottom line is what people do with their religious teachings, how they put them into action in their lives. I don't think Islam is any different from any other religion in the matter of violence.
There will always be radicals who twist words to justify whatever action they happen to believe in at the moment. The conflict in Ireland has been justified up one side of the island and down the other for years with scripture quotations while one group of Christians kills another.
Religions, in general, is similar to sport fans who belong to a certain club. They cheer that club, they wish the opponent club to fail, they wish to convert as many fans as possible to their side, they like their side, and hate the other, they allow for their side to make mistakes, and cry foul if the opposing team comes anywhere near their players.
You would never find a football coach telling his team let us face it guys, you stink, our system stink, and the opponents are the best in everything! The players, and the fans would abandon him, and he will have no job. That is the same thing with priests, rabbis, mullahs. Most of the time these religious leaders honestly believe that their way is the best, and the other religions are just full of it.
The civilized world had to deal with the “holy books” that actually can be used to insight hate, and xenophobia between people. The world can count many slaughters and wars that was based on the xenophobic zealots of one religion or the other. Eventually, the civilized world started teaching coexistence, and tolerance of others. On the other hand, Islam, in the past 30 years, found a new source of funds, and ideologies that made it go back to the barbaric age of incitement of hate. The new mullah government of Iran put the entire country resources under the control of the fanatic Islamists. In addition, the post-energy crises Saudi Arabians, found themselves flush with billions of petrodollars, and were obligated to channel lots of money into a worldwide fanatic Islamic movement. The Saudis also recruited much public relation heavy weight that protected their image from the wrath of the American public. If their was justice in this world, these Saudi advisors and defendants/consultants in Washington would all be hanged in a public square for treason.
Given the above background, the west disregarded that orchestrated hate and plots against us. They thought of these guys as a bunch of backward ragheads. Well, they are, but they are plotting to kill you, Mr. stupid Anglo-Saxon! If you are not going to learn the whole story, you will simply going to burry your head in the sand, and have your butt up in the air, in the open for your enemy to have their way with you.
Unfortunately, we in the west are cursed with this new thing called Political Correctness! We must respect other people religions, even if it teaches them to kill us! We cannot criticize any holy book! These books are “HOLY”, you know!
At this juncture of this world history, it would be advisable if the religion leaders get together one day, and tell the rest of us: Guys, you know you can support your club without killing the opponents! Religions are useful in helping people behave nicely toward each others, and should not be abused to incite hate. Good old Voltair made a comment one time about the poor people: I am glad the peasants believe in God, if they did not fear punishment in the hereafter, they would kill us, and steal our money.
In the OT violence was commanded for certain ends in certain places against certain adversaries. There is nowhere any call for violence against all humanity that does not agree with the believers. To condemn Jews and Christians as necessarily violent against nonbelievers because their book says to sweep away the Canaanitesfor a particular reason at a particular time is piling nonsequitur upon irrelevance.
There are passages in the Koran that explicitly call vor the killing and/of subjugation and conversion by force of all nonbelievers.
There are other passages of more peaceful tenor but if one accepts the Koran as one's religious authority then one must accept the murderous parts as binding. They do not conflict with the peace passages because the Koran also specifies duplicity and treachery as good and necessary when dealing with nonbelievers.
As for the eye-for-an-eye of the OT, that was amelioration of theretofore normal tribal justice which was your-life-and-all-your-clan's-for-an-insult(which the arabs have not yet transcended) just as the stayed sacrifice of Isaac was the announcement of the ban on human sacrifice. The OT is instruction for progressively more civilized behaviour.
If this were true, then you would be able to find a single Islamic country with freedom of religion. Unfortunately, one doesn't exist. Christians are persecutioned in every Islamic country. Your statement is bogus.
No. It could not. I don't recall Christ killing anyone. I don't recall any of his disciples ordering their followers to go kill people. I don't recall Christ looting, stealing, raping. I don't recall his disciples advocating looting, stealing, and raping. Hmmm.
Yeah, there were "Christians" who have done those things. The key difference here is that the founder of Islam and his direct followers did these things and not only said that doing these things is okay, they encouraged it. See the difference?
Not everyone who calls themselves Christian is a Christian.
005.033
YUSUFALI: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter;
PICKTHAL: The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;
SHAKIR: The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
009.030
YUSUFALI: The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!
PICKTHAL: And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
SHAKIR: And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!
009.073
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
PICKTHAL: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.
(The in-your-face hostile stuff won't work any better on them than it would on you- it will only close doors.)
Were it not for this difference, Islam really could be considered a religion of peace.
And since the Qu'ran is considered to be the word of God by Muslims, be they luke warm ones, the heart-felt ones or the devoted, they must take its directives seriously in order to feel that they are in compliance with the God of Abraham.
Here are some examples from the Koran and one other from a respected Islamic Holy book:
"The Day of Resurrection will not arrive until the Moslems make war against the Jews and kill them, and until a Jew hiding behind a rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: 'Oh Moslem, oh servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'" (Sahih Bukhari 004.52.176)
"Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
You expect someone who hates you to tell you?
Hank
Qur’an-(5:51): O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Qur’an-(9:5): “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, And seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ; but if they repent (accept Islam) and establish regular prayers and practices regular charity then open the way for them; for God is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Qur’an-(8:65): “ O Apostle ! Rouse the believers to the fight, if there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering , they will vanquish two hundred; if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers; for these are a people without understanding.”
Quran-2:216: Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
Qur’an-(2:191): “And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out………such is the reward of those who suppress faith.”
Qur’an-(9:29): “Fight those who believe not the Allah nor the last day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and his apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of truth even if they are the people of the book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Qur’an(48:20): “….Allah promises you much booty (spoils of war) that you will capture from the defeated infidels….”
Quran-8:38 “And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression”
Quran-8:12: I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
Quran-8: 15,16: O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
Quran-9:111: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an
Quran-9:73: O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end.
Quran-9:123: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Quran-4:95: O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom? You should believe in Allah and His messenger, and should strive for the cause of Allah with your wealth and your lives. That is better for you, if ye did but know. ... Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, [5.34] Except those who repent before you have them in your power; so know that Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[9.14] Fight them, Allah will punish them by your hands and bring them to disgrace, and assist you against them and heal the hearts of a believing people.
If this were true, then you would be able to find a single Islamic country with freedom of religion. Unfortunately, one doesn't exist. Christians are persecutioned in every Islamic country. Your statement is bogus.
Also, you would be able to find a single muslim religious leader who actively speaks out against and repudiates terrorism. I have yet to hear one do so. I have yet to hear muslim communities in the U.S. do so. In fact, most news reports I see, the muslim communities in the U.S. are against the U.S. war on terror, and support the various terrorist organisations.
Thus, stating that muslims are peaceful goes against all known facts. There may be some exceptions, i.e. muslims who are peaceful, however, the Koran itself teaches to act peaceful and hide your intentions of domination when living amongst "non-believers" and outnumbered. Thus, it is hard to even take "peaceful" muslims at face value. As always, actions mean more than words, and sometimes even words are nice. Here, there has been no action, and no words, to prove muslims are peaceful.
Then today, I'm looking at a picture taken (from above) of worshipers -- by the hundreds -- standing within a Baghdad mosque. The symmetry within that pictured gathering was amazing and my thought about that was: Are Mullahs taking note as to who is there and who isn't? Is each position in that formation assigned to a specific individual?
Can anyone tell me if that is so?
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