Delay Sees Assault Gun Ban Expiring in Congress

Reuters ^ | May 13, 2003 | Joanne Kenen

[TLBSHOW]

Delay Sees Assault Gun Ban Expiring in Congress

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - House Majority Leader Tom Delay, a proudly pro-gun Texas Republican, predicted on Tuesday the House will allow a 1994 assault weapons ban to expire next year.

"The votes in the House are not there to reauthorize (renew) it," DeLay told reporters.

DeLay's opposition to the ban puts him at odds with President Bush, who wants it to be extended although he generally opposes the expansion of gun laws.

The ban, approved during the Clinton administration, applies to military-style semi-automatic assault weapons like the Uzi and the AK-47 that have high ammunition capacity and are capable of rapid fire at close range.

A group of mostly Democratic senators last week opened a drive to get the extension passed in the U.S. Senate, and called on Bush to help, particularly in the House where pro-gun sentiments are stronger and DeLay wields considerable control over the agenda.

After the 1999 Columbine high school shootings in Colorado, the Senate passed several tough new gun measures. DeLay was instrumental in blocking them in the House.

Senate Democrats want to renew the current ban with only one change -- a ban on importing large-capacity ammunition clips. Their manufacture is already prohibited in the United States. Some House Democrats have outlined more far-reaching legislation that would expand the ban to other guns.

"The House Republicans are so out of touch that they are to the right of even President Bush on guns. Most Americans want fewer assault weapons on the streets, but the House Republicans want to bring banned assault weapons back," said New Jersey Democrat Sen. Frank Lautenberg.

Bush's support for the ban puts him at odds with the National Rifle Association, the powerful gun lobby that is usually his ally.

Another top NRA priority, a bill giving gun makers and sellers sweeping protection against lawsuits, recently passed the House and is pending in the Senate.

Several Senate Democrats Tuesday said they were determined to do everything they could to block the lawsuit bill, or at least amend it to narrow its scope

[wcbtinman]

"Senate Democrats want to renew the current ban with only one change..."

LIARS!

[RS]

Can we send our guys to a Holiday Inn in OK ?

[TLBSHOW]

isn't there a whole group of changes that the rats want?

[Poohbah]

Can we send our guys to a Holiday Inn in OK ?

Why should we?

[discostu]

It is only one change: they want to make it ban all guns not just assault weapons.

[Petronski]

DeLay's opposition to the ban puts him at odds with President Bush, who wants it to be extended although he generally opposes the expansion of gun laws.

Good cop / bad cop?

[Petronski]

A cow don't make ham

Ever had pastrami?

[green team 1999]

assault gun ban is (dead on arrival)

[discostu]

Pastrami ain't ham, it's kosher.

mmmm kosher pastrami

[45Auto]

One possible scenario really has me perturbed: The bastards allow the law to sunset in September 2004; they then come back right after the November 2004 election and simply pass another ban. I'll bet that this is the way it will play out; that way, George W. Bush gets re-elected, the Repubos can cave, and no one will have to pay the price for once again screwing the citizenry out of the RKBA. And we can expect no help from the courts..

[BonnieJ]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what EXACTLY is an assault weapon??

[Normal4me]

Filibuster works both ways right?? No judges, no signature!

[Petronski]

Pastrami ain't ham, it's kosher.

It's made from kosher hogs.

[samuel_adams_us]

Let the democrats delay the lawsuit bill, we'll just vote them out with the rest of the trash come next january.

[discostu]

Actually it doesn't work both way, if the President ignores legislation for 10 days (not counting Sundays) it passes by default (and somewhere the FReeper that pointed me to Article 1 Sections 7 is smiling). But it's OK this thing is dead probably in committee.

[discostu]

Hogs can't be kosher. Unless they're really big, don't eat poo, and have non-cloven hooves. Udders help too ;-)

[Not Insane]

Kosher Hogs? Is that like a Kosher Palestinian?

[sinkspur]

The bastards allow the law to sunset in September 2004; they then come back right after the November 2004 election and simply pass another ban

Why would they do that?

There's absolutely no chance of that happening.

[TLBSHOW]

I wouldn't put anything past any of them any more. You may be correct.

I see is the rats pressing Bush on this issue hard. That is what I see is going to happen.

[lawdude]

Here is pastrami info.

To make pastrami, you start by making corned beef. Corned beef is a beef brisket soaked in brine (with some sugar and spices). According to "The Joy of Cooking," corned beef "has nothing to do with corn but got its name...when a granular salt the size of a kernel of wheat -- corn to a Briton -- was used to process it." By smoking corned beef, you turn it into pastrami! Smoking adds flavor to the meat.

[discostu]

Now I'm gettin hungry, you guys are mean.

[Normal4me]

Thanks for the info. Now lets keep Pastrami from being banned! ;-)

ummmmmm.....pastrami

/homer

[husky ed]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what EXACTLY is an assault weapon??

Turkish Bolt Action

And just about anything else they want to call "Assault Weapon".

[Jhoffa_]

DeLay's opposition to the ban puts him at odds with President Bush..

Ohhhh.. I don't know about that.

Somehow I can't imagine Dubya writing nasty things on DeLay's lawn in kerosine or anything just because the bill that will alienate his base and forever brand him as a 2A sellout never makes it to his desk.

In fact, I can imagine a phone call to the effect of:

Dubya: "Hey, Tom.. Thanks man, you saved me allot of grief on that assault weapons thing. You took lightning rod duty on that one and I want you to know that I appreciate it."

DeLay: "No problem.. happy to do it. Hey, don't forget to let me know how the consolation call to Di-fi goes."

Dubya: "LOL! Yeah, that one should earn me an oscar for sure! (begin mocking tone)'Well Di-Fi, you know I did the best I could for you dear' LOL! LOL! See ya Tom, have a good evening man."

DeLay: "LOL! Yeah, that'll be a classic.. And you too George, regards to Laura. Night. "

[SauronOfMordor]

One interesting section in the new legislation bans

(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.

The feds could add ANY firearm, of ANY type, to the banned list by simply having somebody at some federal agency buy one. And almost ALL types of handguns, shotguns, and rifles have already been procured for use by military or law enforcement at one time or other. This clause effectively bans ALL firearms at the discretion of some future Janet Reno.

[discostu]

So we can defend ourselves from the government, which is the point of the first half of the Bill of Rights. Might I recommend the Federalist Papers, they explain the why's and wherefore's of pretty much everything in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. The 2nd Ammendment isn't about hunting.

[GhostofWCooper]

"what exactly is an Assault Weapon?"

That's a very good question. It seems to be a any semi-automatic rifle or semi-automatic pistol that is scary looking.. You know, with doodads and handles or little sling swivels and stuff. The definition continues to evolve. Within a year or two, it could mean anything more powerful than a BB gun.

[.38sw]

Is this satire? The second amendment ain't about deer hunting, nor duck hunting, nor any other sporting purpose. It is about preservation of our freedom, and defense of self, home and country. it's not up to politicians to tell us what kind of firearms we *may* own. We don't need their permission.

I hope you meant your post to be satirical.

[SauronOfMordor]

I don't understand the incessant need for semi automatic weapons. They're not needed for hunting (You don't deserve to be in the NRA if you need a m16 to kill a deer) and their only function is to kill people.

The main benefit of having a semi-auto weapon is if you have to deal with multiple targets at the same time. Like if you are defending your home during a riot or "civil unrest", or if you have a gang of muggers. The Korean shopowners who had semi-auto weapons during the LA riots made it thru with their stores intact. The unarmed ones were burned out.

[Yo-Yo]

Hunting isn't the reason the 2nd amendment was added to the bill of rights.

Member since 5-13-2003, welcome to FR

[PuNcH]

I don't understand the incessant need for semi automatic weapons. They're not needed for hunting (You don't deserve to be in the NRA if you need a m16 to kill a deer)

Hey the 2nd Amendment isnt needed for hunting either. And why would you use the underpowered M16 (mousegun) to kill a deer when a typical hunting rifle is so much more powerful?

[Petronski]

[Exhausted sigh.] Yes, I know. Pastrami is made from beef. But you said you can't make ham from a cow, and I was just making an observation about how some pastrami resembles ham, yet is still kosher.

[husky ed]

That's why I showed a pic of a bolt action and a M1.

These people didn't want to just ban AR-15's and AK-47's. They wanted to ban every gun in the country. And the AWB was just the start.

[Jhoffa_]

That's your first post?

I suspect you're a re-tread.

(But, I know better than to argue the point.. )

[PuNcH]

The ban, approved during the Clinton administration, applies to military-style semi-automatic assault weapons like the Uzi and the AK-47 that have high ammunition capacity and are capable of rapid fire at close range.

In other words they're machineguns...except they are not.

The ban itself is a piece of propaganda and it has to go.

[GhostofWCooper]

If you knew the reason for the 2nd Amendment, you would know that all military weapons are covered by it. If the US government was operated by honorable men, who respected and kept true to their oathes, there would never be ANY REASON for it to fear the armed citizen. Since it isn't, and the Founders knew it wouldn't be, they put some teeth in the Bill of Rights.
This scares some soccer moms and other squeamish little statists, so they chisel away at the 2nd continually. This scares the Freedom loving independent types, and thus the debate continues.

It also continues because the supreme court apparently cannot read.

[asneditor]

So you are siding against the constitution?

[discostu]

I knew you were working towards a joke, I just could see what direction it was in, so I made my own. I haven't seen any pastrami that looked like ham, I'm guess it isn't very good pastrami.

[sargon]

applies to military-style semi-automatic assault weapons like the Uzi and the AK-47 that have high ammunition capacity and are capable of rapid fire at close range.

A factually false statement by a journalist. Not a big surprise on this issue.

The Uzi and AK-47 are both fully-automatic, thus they are true assault weapons.

Semi-automatic rifles, by definition, are not assault weapons.

This blurring of the distinction between the two was used to foment the semi-auto ban in the first place.

As well as the argument that these weapons have no legitimate hunting use. Well, the Second Amendment ain't about hunting.

In any event, it remains legal to own machine guns in the United States, although a few hoops must be jumped through.

Semi-automatic weapons should never have been demonized like this, and if a semi-auto ban ever sticks under USSC scrutiny, then the Second Amendment is dead anyway (disregarding the full-auto debate for the moment.)

[Sender]

Go BaCk...bAcK tO tHe MaGiCaL lAnD oF dU...

[muir_redwoods]

mmmmm, Stage Door Deli Kosher Pastrami

Dark pumpernickel, brown mustard, red onion

Damn it, I did it again!

[muir_redwoods]

some people need killing. Sad but true and when you meet one you better have the right weapon.

[muir_redwoods]

You mean the way Lincoln and FDR did?

[Hat-Trick]

Please excuse my ignorance, but what EXACTLY is an assault weapon??

Excellent question! Aren't they all? In the gun-grabber's zest to dehumanize the taking of innocent life, I believe, the term "assault weapon" was born.

I'm pretty sure the hyper-libido rabbits in my backyard consider my Crossman .177 pellet gun an "assault weapon".

Hat-Trick

[GunRunner]

What's an assault weapon?

[Yo-Yo]

BonnieJ Wrote:
"Please excuse my ignorance, but what EXACTLY is an assault weapon??"

That's easy!

The Federal Government defines "Assault Weapon" (From Title 18 United States Code, section 921) as:

(30) The term "semiautomatic assault weapon" means--
(A) any of the firearms, or copies or duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as--
(i) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs (all models);
(ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil;
(iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70);
(iv) Colt AR-15;
(v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC;
(vi) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12;
(vii) Steyr AUG;
(viii) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22; and
(ix) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street Sweeper and Striker 12;

(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;

(C) a semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--
(i) an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;
(ii) a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer;
(iii) a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;
(iv) a manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and
(v) a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

(D) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds; and
(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine.

However, the State of California defnies Assault Weapon (from California Penal Code 12276) as:

§ 12276. "Assault weapon"

As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:

(a) All of the following specified rifles:

(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:

(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.

(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.

(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.

(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.

(2) UZI and Galil.

(3) Beretta AR-70.

(4) CETME Sporter.

(5) Colt AR-15 series.

(6) Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1, Max 2, AR 100, and AR 110C.

(7) Fabrique Nationale FAL, LAR, FNC, 308 Match, and Sporter.

(8) MAS 223.

(9) HK-91, HK-93, HK-94, and HK-PSG-1.

(10) The following MAC types:

(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.

(B) SWD Incorporated M11.

(11) SKS with detachable magazine.

(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.

(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.

(14) Sterling MK-6.

(15) Steyer AUG.

(16) Valmet M62S, M71S, and M78S.

(17) Armalite AR-180.

(18) Bushmaster Assault Rifle.

(19) Calico M-900.

(20) J & R ENG M-68.

(21) Weaver Arms Nighthawk.

(b) All of the following specified pistols:

(1) UZI.

(2) Encom MP-9 and MP-45.

(3) The following MAC types:

(A) RPB Industries Inc. sM10 and sM11.

(B) SWD Incorporated M-11.

(C) Advance Armament Inc. M-11.

(D) Military Armament Corp. Ingram M-11.

(4) Intratec TEC-9.

(5) Sites Spectre.

(6) Sterling MK-7.

(7) Calico M-950.

(8) Bushmaster Pistol.

(c) All of the following specified shotguns:

(1) Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12.

(2) Striker 12.

(3) The Streetsweeper type S/S Inc. SS/12.

(d) Any firearm declared by the court pursuant to Section 12276.5 to be an assault weapon that is specified as an assault weapon in a list promulgated pursuant to Section 12276.5.

(e) The term "series" includes all other models that are only variations, with minor differences, of those models listed in subdivision (a), regardless of the manufacturer.

and California Penal code section 12276.1 further adds:

§ 12276.1. Further definition of "assault weapon"

(a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

(B) A thumbhole stock.

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.

(E) A flash suppressor.

(F) A forward pistol grip.

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(B) A second handgrip.

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:

(A) A folding or telescoping stock.

(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

(b) The Legislature finds a significant public purpose in exempting pistols that are designed expressly for use in Olympic target shooting events. Therefore, those pistols that are sanctioned by the International Olympic Committee and by USA Shooting, the national governing body for international shooting competition in the United States, and that are used for Olympic target shooting purposes at the time the act adding this subdivision is enacted, and that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section are exempt, as provided in subdivision (c).

(c) "Assault weapon" does not include either of the following:

(1) Any antique firearm.

(2) Any of the following pistols, because they are consistent with the significant public purpose expressed in subdivision (b):


MANUFACTURER MODEL CALIBER
BENELLI MP90 .22LR
BENELLI MP90 .32 S & W LONG
BENELLI MP95 .22LR
BENELLI MP95 .32 S & W LONG
HAMMERLI 280 .22LR
HAMMERLI 280 .32 S & W LONG
HAMMERLI SP20 .22LR
HAMMERLI SP20 .32 S & W LONG
PARDINI GPO .22 SHORT
PARDINI GP-SCHUMANN .22 SHORT
PARDINI HP .32 S & W LONG
PARDINI MP .32 S & W LONG
PARDINI SP .22LR
PARDINI SPE .22LR
WALTHER GSP .22LR
WALTHER GSP .32 S & W LONG
WALTHER OSP .22 SHORT
WALTHER OSP-2000 .22 SHORT



(3) The Department of Justice shall create a program that is consistent with the purposes stated in subdivision (b) to exempt new models of competitive pistols that would otherwise fall within the definition of "assault weapon" pursuant to this section from being classified as an assault weapon. The exempt competitive pistols may be based on recommendations by USA Shooting consistent with the regulations contained in the USA Shooting Official Rules or may be based on the recommendation or rules of any other organization that the department deems relevant.

(d) The following definitions shall apply under this section:

(1) "Magazine" shall mean any ammunition feeding device.

(2) "Capacity to accept more than 10 rounds" shall mean capable of accommodating more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include a feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.

(3) "Antique firearm" means any firearm manufactured prior to January 1, 1899.

Any questions?