Saving Our Economy

My fetid brain | May 16, 2003 | Harpseal

[harpseal]

Some ideas that needed to come out.

[harpseal]

For your comments

[DB]

One doesn't have to depend on an employer for ones financial security. "Technical" people (or anyone else for that matter) can start their own businesses and create their own jobs.

I did, many here also have.

[YankeeReb]

Second, the cost of outsourcing should reflect its true cost to these companies. Revise the tax code so that the investment tax credit does not cover any development done outside the USA unless such development can not be done inside the USA. Fraud in such certification should be considered a felony and prosecuted.

Love to see it..... but don't hold your breath.

[waterstraat]

The republicans and the democrats both want american factories to be closed and replaced by foreign ones, they both want cheap foreign labor to replace american workers. I dont see how we can avoid disaster in this country. There will be fewer and fewer jobs for americans, and most businesses fail.

[harpseal]

One doesn't have to depend on an employer for ones financial security. "Technical" people (or anyone else for that matter) can start their own businesses and create their own jobs.

Likewise for starting one's own business. However due to section 1706 of the IRS code which specifically covers computer programmers and analysts, electrical and electronic engineers, draftsmen, and several other high tech professions the liability of cutomers for additional taxers makes purchasing these services from small companies very difficult. The repeal of this provision of the tax code that imputes liability for an employer/employee relationship ios one of the provisions I included. I did, many here also have.

[harpseal]

The republicans and the democrats both want american factories to be closed and replaced by foreign ones, they both want cheap foreign labor to replace american workers. I dont see how we can avoid disaster in this country. There will be fewer and fewer jobs for americans, and most businesses fail.

I am presuming that one of these parties will see the light for their partisan advantage and winning and or maintaining power.

[Mr. Bird]

They are based on demanding free markets from our competitors.

No offense, but how do we demand "free markets" from our competitors while closing our labor market at the same time? I would revise your proposal in some ways: don't end H1B altogether; there are non-IT jobs that rely on foreign workers, notably in health care. Kicking them out of the country will do actual harm to regular Americans.

Demand that IT workers stop blaming external factors for all of their job woes. An IT worker willing to relocate has a good chance of landing a job. An IT worker wanting a job to come to him has no room to complain.

The modern IT worker has much in common with the factory worker of the early 20th century. It is no longer an elite field, untouchable to the masses. Too many people keep flocking to certification programs, recalling the laughable exhortation of the '60's that "plastics" were the future. What is needed is creativity. If you want to be a standard IT worker, you're going to be treated like a textile worker, because you are now a dime a dozen. Create, innovate, do something different: that's what the market will reward.

[harpseal]

No offense, but how do we demand "free markets" from our competitors while closing our labor market at the same time?

The alternative is we open our market to them while their market is closed to us. that is insanity. we demand free acess to their market or they face a cut off of access to our market it is really simple.

I would revise your proposal in some ways: don't end H1B altogether; there are non-IT jobs that rely on foreign workers, notably in health care.

There are a number of Americans looking for these same jobs. I would suggest a good faith effort at hiring and training and paying a sufficient wage to attract the appropriate talent.

Kicking them out of the country will do actual harm to regular Americans.

This assertion needs proof before we maintain H1B workers in this nation.

Demand that IT workers stop blaming external factors for all of their job woes. An IT worker willing to relocate has a good chance of landing a job. An IT worker wanting a job to come to him has no room to complain.Give me a break. I can cite numerous cases of highly skilled and educated IT workers who are the cream of the crop and were making six figure incomes from consulting less than two years ago who can not now find a position for $40,000/year. yes, tehy are willing to travel and relocate. The big question is why you want Americans out of work so that foreign nationals can be employed? maybe you resent IT professionals or engineers or maybe doctors it really does not matter. You will note my proposal states that free access to our markets would be granted to those nations that in turn give free access to their markets. What you seem to want is only the USA to be subject to an unlimited exploitation by cheap foreign labor.

By the way I, you will note that my proposal include the same principles of free and fair trade for manufacturing as for IT and every othereconomic endevor. The modern IT worker has much in common with the factory worker of the early 20th century. It is no longer an elite field, untouchable to the masses. Too many people keep flocking to certification programs, recalling the laughable exhortation of the '60's that "plastics" were the future. What is needed is creativity. If you want to be a standard IT worker, you're going to be treated like a textile worker, because you are now a dime a dozen. Create, innovate, do something different: that's what the market will reward.

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

...An IT worker willing to relocate has a good chance of landing a job...

Yes, Calcutta is lovely this time of year. Isn't it almost time for the annual toss the dead into the river day?

What a sight.
And housing is cheap.

[Mr. Bird]

I can cite numerous cases of highly skilled and educated IT workers who are the cream of the crop and were making six figure incomes from consulting less than two years ago who can not now find a position for $40,000/year.

Very true, but this has less to do with an influx of foreign workers than an overall increase in the supply of qualified native labor. If you go to Monster or CareerBuilder, there are over 4000 jobs listed for programmers, more than any other occupation except maybe sales. The jobs are out there, but there are too many of you fighting for them.

[harpseal]

Excuse me Americans are not allowed to work in IT in India one must be an Indian national.

[harpseal]

Very true, but this has less to do with an influx of foreign workers than an overall increase in the supply of qualified native labor. If you go to Monster or CareerBuilder, there are over 4000 jobs listed for programmers, more than any other occupation except maybe sales. The jobs are out there, but there are too many of you fighting for them.

If there are too many Americans fighting for iT jobs why on earth do we keep importing H1B's to increase the competition. You have just undercut your own ccase as to the jobs listed on Monster.com etc. The majority of these are listings for which no American will be hired. Companies in order to import cheap H1b workers must list jobs first. In short I am not buying into your arguing for destroying the Amnerican Middle class in order to subsidize foreign nationals. Why do you hate America?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Course not.

[biblewonk]

There is nothing wrong with our economy, it is just readjusting.

[harpseal]

That is one of my points that needs to be implemented Americans must be allowed to compete fairly for IT positions outside the USA even in India. If they can come here why can't we go there?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Realistically, only a small percentage of people can start and succeed in a small business. When things were going in the right direction, 4 out of 5 failed.

Yet you hear that all the time here. Laid off from the car wash? Start your own Microsoft.
Some people here can only be explained as shills.

[harpseal]

Well it is time to readjust our economy to take care of Americans before taking care of foreign nationals. We have engaged in some specific polices as a nation that have hurt a large number of Americans to subsidize foreign nationals. It is time to stop those subsidies. I am realy quite sick of those who call themselves conservatives who keep defending violations of the free market principles that hurt Ameican interests and telling their fellow Americans to shut and take it. There is an old saying sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. All I am saying is protect our borders enforce our laws prosecute those who have violated our laws and demand equal treatment from foreign nations. What is so extreme about those proposals?

[the gillman@blacklagoon.com]

Their government is tending to the business of running their country, for the nation of India.

That seems to be the big difference.

I have no ideas for a solution, except remove our entire government and start over.

[harpseal]

In the field of IT how does one maintain customers and start a business when the customers are faced with the IRS demanding that after they have paid their independant contractors as contractors they then pony up all the taxes as though these people were employees. There was a case at Microsoft in the 1990's where this was the situation.