The End of the Boy Scouts in Philadelphia (when decent Americans chose not to fight back)

townhall ^ | June 1, 2003 | Hans Zeiger

[Kerberos]

"Thanks for the link. I read the front page of it and will check it out in more detail tonight."

LOL

[Kerberos]

"Rainbow Scouts."

LOL

Wrong cut and paste the first time.

[gcruse]

Here's a thought. Let's put on a musical! No, no. I mean how about having a weather type program with a big US map showing, say, a line of immorality moving down from Pennsylvania because of a low decency system in Virgina and a high dudgeon parked over New Jersey. The forecast is for scattered applause tonight giving way to intermittent grumbling as tolerance lifts in the early morning. No? Oh, well, back to your regularly scheduled indignation.

[Cathryn Crawford]

You're so much more creative than I am! Very cute!

[PBRSTREETGANG]

Perhaps "Young Pioneers" would be a good name for this group...

As opposed to "Junior Butt Pirates"?

[TLBSHOW]

BUMP BACK TO THE TOP

[Eric in the Ozarks]

How about Groupthink kids ?

[RonF]

I'm a long-time Scout (= youth member) and Scouter (= adult member). A few comments:

Local BSA Councils are not-for-profit corporations consisting of local business and community leaders, as well as a few Scouters. They receive, and must renew annually, a charter from National Council to establish, oversee and support the BSA program in a geographic area. They in turn charter local organizations such as churches, veterans' organizations, fraternal organizations, schools, etc., to sponsor Packs, Troops, Ships, and Crews. These are also renewable annually.

If the sponsoring organization does not follow National and local Council guidelines and policies in running their units, the local Council can refuse to renew their charter. If the local Council does not follow National guidelines, National Council can refuse to renew their charter. In the former case, the unit folds and the Scouts would have to join another unit to continue in Scouting. In the latter case, either a new not-for-profit corporation would have to be started up to take over the charter, or the region the old Council covered could be taken over by one or more Councils contiguous to it. What's going to happen here is that first a delegation from National will meet with the Council's Executive Board (tha above noted local community and business leaders) to see just what their intent is, as opposed to what's in the press. If they persist that they are going to register "avowed homosexuals" as leaders, then I expect that they'll end up taking one of the steps I've outlined.

Note that it is the responsibility of the local units to select leaders. While the BSA is often brought into lawsuits on these matters, it's the sponsoring organization that has failed to do it's homework in registering an unqualified leader, and in failing to make sure that he or she is conducting the program properly.

National's basis for excluding homosexual leaders is because they provide what the majority of the BSA's sponsoring organizations believe are improper moral role models for youth. According to the BSA's own web site, any risk of paedophilia has nothing to do with it. And practically, if you search on Google for cases of molestation of Scouts by Scouters, you'll find that the Scouter involved either has no known sexual relations with adults at all, or is married and has kids.

What the BSA depends on to prevent child molestation is the proper selection of leaders by sponsoring organizations, and the strict application of the Youth Protection guidelines by the sponsors and the leaders. These steps will prevent child molestation of any kind.

The other way for parents to make sure that things of this sort don't happen in their unit is to show up. The BSA is not a program designed so that you can drop off your kid and a check once a week. "BSA" does not stand for "BabySitters of America". It's a family program, not a youth program, and you need to put some time in. Even if you can't be a leader, you can go on the occasional campout, hang around for a Troop meeting, run the Popcorn sale, help with the Pancake Breakfast, get your hands dirty helping with a service project, and in general observe what's going on.

I question the original author's characterization of the Minuteman Council's (Boston) announced policy re: sexual orientation of leaders. National doesn't seem to have a problem with it. Minuteman Council's policy seems to be "Don't ask, don't tell", which is National policy. They just stated it in a fashion that makes it a little more palatable for the locals. But I am unaware of any "avowed homosexual" who has taken a leadership position, "told", and stayed registered at Minuteman Council.

It's also worth noting that Cradle of Liberty Council isn't telling units that they have to accept homosexual members; they're saying that they can if they want to. Note as an analogy that BSA units can accept women as leaders if they wish, but many don't and are supported by both their local and National Councils (Troops sponsored by Mormon stakes do this) in their decision. The choice of leaders is up to sponsoring organizations and they are free to accept or reject leaders on whatever reason they choose (gender, profession, health, etc.).

Finally, cutting off support to your local BSA Council because there is an unresolved situation in Philadelphia is a sure way to hurt a bunch of youth and to make sure that they don't get the program from someone who wants to do so properly.

[shadowman99]

Very insightful. Thanks for posting that.

[RonF]

Thank you for reading it. So much has been printed from all points of view on this controversy by people who have no understanding of how the BSA works that there's a great deal of misunderstanding out there.

[SauronOfMordor]

If Scouts continue refusing to accept gay scoutmasters, it seems like the forces of political correctness (these days including churches, temples, local governments and school boards) will continue to ostracize them, perhaps until they are successfully demonized.

Any Scouting parent opposing gay scoutmasters is vulnerable in cities with a sizable gay population.

If a parent takes a leadership role in opposing gay scooutmasters, it is fairly easy for opposing pro-gay elements to make trouble for them. All it takes is discovering where they work (pretty easy, since you usually have your office number listed in your kid's file as an emergency contact number), and then finding some gay people to notify in your company, who will then complain to HR about "this homophobe" creating a "hostile work environment".

By this means, it's fairly straightforward to silence the opposition

[mickie]

Thanks Ron....makes alot of sense.

[vikingcelt]

This is so outrageous and depressing. When I was a little girl I was sort of an honorary member of the Cub Scouts and then the Boy Scouts because my parents were so involved because of my brother. Then, of course, I was a Brownie and a Girl Scout too. That these great organizations should be held hostage to perversion makes me sick.

[Sam Cree]

When I was a scout in the 50's, parents were not too involved, never came to campouts, etc. However, when my son was a scout, early 90's, most parents were very involved, on campouts, teaching merit badges, generally hanging out and helping, Moms, Dads, and siblings, very different from my memories of earlier times.

I had actually supposed that the parental involvement may have at some level, been meant to guard against pedophilia, maybe I'm wrong.

Certainly I have thought that the role model issue was the main concern of BSA. I happen to agree with it.

[Sam Cree]

"who will then complain to HR about "this homophobe" creating a "hostile work environment."

But do they not need real grounds to register such a complaint? Or do you think most companies consider support of the BSA on this to be such grounds?

[SauronOfMordor]

But do they not need real grounds to register such a complaint? Or do you think most companies consider support of the BSA on this to be such grounds?

Being "outed" as being an organizer of opposition to BSA admitting gay scoutmasters would constitute being a "homophobe". Being drawn into a conversation on the subject on company property would be sufficient to get HR involved

[Sam Cree]

You know, if you are right, a very large sector of America, maybe even a majority, probably qualifies as perpetrators of "thought crimes."

That gives the law a mighty awesome stick, should they wish to use it.

[IronJack]

That sounds like the straight 411. Thanks for the background.

[Nebr FAL owner]

Yes it was & I think that was the general idea about proposing it as a replacement name .....sarcasm

[RonF]

I try. I have read many stories, both pro and con, regarding the BSA's policies. In neither case do I see very many reporters who seem to understand how the BSA works. Doesn't anyone (and I'm talking both liberals and conservatives here) do any research into an organization before they report on it?