THE LUKE SKYFREEPER ABORTION DOCTRINE

Luke Skyfreeper (vanity) | June 6, 2003 | Luke Skyfreeper

[Zavien Doombringer]

Are you suggesting the Viking Kitties need to be summond?

[stuartcr]

I was stating fact.

[palmer]

There are plenty of married couples that would love to adopt.

There are plenty of women who feel the need to abort. It's a shame we can't bring these two groups together with something other than the threat of legal force.

[Zavien Doombringer]

My fellow Kitty Comrades,

There is much discernment needed here. Your presence is requested.

[amused]

I agree but "All or nothing" is what drives the debate.

If one believes life begins at conception, any "compromise" of that is untenable.

If one doesn't believe life begins a conception but rather viability, then compromise can be made.

If one believes life begins at birth, then obviously the "fetus" can be done away with at the parent's whim.

The problem with this debate is that this is life which is not open to pragmatism the way war or the death penalty can be discussed. This is a life inside another. Life of a potential full grown being with a soul carried in the vessel of another full grown being with a soul. So when I say "pragmatically" I couldn't have an abortion(well duh...I am a man) but others are free to do so it pains me. I see the inconsistency and it pains me. Would I say "pragmatically" I would never beat my child but others are free to do so? Of course not.

I can recognize the life of the mother in the event of medical circumstance is in danger, that abortion could be a very sad decision to make. But otherwise...I just can't anymore.

In the past 2 months, 2 close friends had abortions. I didn't offer any support for those decisions and changed the subject when it came even remotely close. Now I deal with the twin devils of guilt; being a crappy friend and being a crappy human being.

Life unfortunately isn't fair. If it was, 2 children would be alive and I wouldn't get late night phone calls of sobbing where the reason isn't disclosed. Damn...I hate these discussions.

[Zavien Doombringer]

There are plenty of women who feel the need to abort.

Ask any woman if she really wants to abort her baby. It is usually pressured by liberal groups, uncommited fathers and other social venues.

Ask any mother who has aborted a baby.

I volunteer at the Crisis Pregnancy Center (I fix databases and computers for them)

[Protagoras]

And statistically there hasn't been any case so far that the life of the mother was in jeopardy and needed an abortion to warrant this as a means for legalization.

I'm anti abortion, but that statement is at best misleading. (statistically) Are you saying that there is no case when the mother's health/life is in jeopardy from pregnancy?

[amused]

Have you guys seen the new MTV "commercial" that uses the Viking Kitty? The first one was a stop motion photo animation with a cat and chameleon to the Culture Club hit "Karma Chameleon" but there is a new one that uses the Viking kitty.

[SunStar]

As a newbie, I would recommend avoiding starting lightning rod threads(no Zot pun here, I'm series). People don't know you yet and are more likely to write you off as a disruptor.

Wierd, I don't see any posts claiming he is a disruptor. Are you sure it's not just you?

[Protagoras]

uh, he's been here May 6th...one month..

My mistake, thanks for the correction.

(the idea doesn't change much)

[amused]

If there are people here who are unable to tell, from what I write, that I'm not a disruptor, well, then, I'm at a total loss for what to say.

It happens. This site is attacked every single day so when a relatively new poster starts a thread one of the big four firefights (WOD, WBTS, CREVO, abortion, which basically consist of aof maybe a dozen people vs. the rest of FR) some people's radars go nuts. Just wanted to give you the heads up.

[MEGoody]

I disagree in basic premise. The unborn child is human at conception. However, I do understand that it is unlikely we'll be able to get the whole ball of wax in one shot. I'd be happy if we could get the guidelines you've outlined made into law. Then I could start working the rest. :)

[AppyPappy]

is somehow less human on the 56th day of gestation than it is on the 57th?

I notice you ignored this question. What is it on the 56th day? A frog? A hamster?

[Zavien Doombringer]

No,I am not saying that. There are many issues that can happen that would put a mother in jeopardy, a torn placenta comes to mind... Medically if the mother was in jeopardy it wouldn't be terminating the pregnancy in the abortion we see as birth control. There is a difference in the mindset. One is selfish for a lifestyle, one is for life...

[smadurski]

My daughter was born at 24 weeks. She needed tons of medical help but, is now home and doing well at 6 months of age.

[SunStar]

There isn't any viable reason for anyone to have an abortion. It is selfish and should not be used for birth control.

While I believe this statement to be true, it is just our opinions.

Think about it this way, what would your chances be for you to be here if your mom was pro-choice?

My mother is pro-choice. Thankfully, she made the right choice.

[MEGoody]

"What we need to understand, is that abortions, will continue to happen, whether legal or not."

Rapes will continue to happen, whether they are legal or not. What is your point?

[Luke Skyfreeper]

So a fetus (I don't care to play word games) is somehow less human on the 56th day of gestation than it is on the 57th? While we're dehumanizeing something that is obviously human, let's see if we can declare Jews, Slavs, Christians, Muslims, Aborigines or women as something less than human when it suits our needs.

In our society, we the people are ultimately responsible for our self-government.

It is quite demonstrably true that about half of the people believe abortion should be legal, and about half of the people believe the practice should be illegal. The vast majority of these would state that they do not believe that a fertilized ovum is "a human being" in the same sense that you and I are human beings.

For the record, I believe that the fertilized ovum is human. That is obvious. We do not have an elephant, a bird, or a crocodile. The genetic code is complete, and it is human genetic code. However, to be a genetically human fertilized ovum, with NO capabilities for thinking, self-awareness, awareness of one's surroundings, exercise of will, directed movement, eating, breathing, or feeling pain (the latter of these are not only characteristics of human beings but are characteristic of animals such as dogs and cats as well) is not exactly the same thing as being "a human being" (in the sense that most of us understand human beings to be.

In any event, here is the practical result of the insistence of pro-lifers that abortion must be an all-or-nothing proposition: it is currently fully legal to destroy developing children through the full 40 weeks of pregnancy in the United States.

If you can live with that, fine.

I can't.

[MEGoody]

"common-sense middleground viewpoint"

That SOUNDS nice and 'compromising,' but we are talking about a human life here, not the choice of how much land each party gets.

[Zavien Doombringer]

no it doesn't, I have only been here a few months and I wouldn't want to post a lightning rod like this...