A vast cavern is the stage for tests to find the 'God particle'

The Times ^

[andy224]

Cheap at any price, even £1.5 billion, to get us a little closer to understanding the universe.

[Reelect President Dubya]

Cheap at any price, even £1.5 billion, to get us a little closer to understanding the universe.

Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem proves that we will never be able to completely understand the universe.

So what's the point? </sarcasm>

[TomB]

Interesting.

I'll be back later to read the comments of the offended.

[fporretto]

Godel's Incompleteness Theorem merely states that, in any "omega-complete" formal system -- in layman's terms, a system of sufficient expressive generality and abstraction to describe its own operations and permit self-reference -- there are demonstrably true statements for which no proof exists within that system. But this is strictly a mathematical phenomenon, based on the rigid mathematical definition of a proof.

The classical proof of the Incompleteness Theorem involves:

1. The lemma of arithmetization: that is, the demonstration that all omega-complete formal systems are isomorphic -- identical in their expressive scope, and that therefore, any of them can be substituted for any other without a loss of power.
2. The construction of the statement "This statement has no proof," which we shall call Statement G, in an arithmetized form.
3. The argument that Statement G must be true, since if it were false, it could be proved, and must therefore be true -- an unsustainable circular contradiction.
4. Since Statement G is true, it has no proof. Q.E.D.

Fascinating stuff, but applicable only to the rigidly formal systems of mathematics, in which a proof is a highly specific entity with a prescribed form.

I know, mathematics is too tiresome for a Monday morning...(tee hee)

Freedom, Wealth, and Peace,
Francis W. Porretto
Visit The Palace Of Reason:
http://palaceofreason.com

[TomB]

The ATLAS detector

"In other news, once the detector is up and running, researchers are planning to send Hillary Clinton's new book through and see if even the remotest possibility of truth is found in it."

[PatrickHenry]

Particle physics. PING. [This ping list is for the evolution side of evolution threads, and sometimes for other science topics. FReepmail me to be added or dropped.]

[19th LA Inf]

Meanwhile, near Waxahatchie, TX, developers try to find a use for a big underground hole that woulda been the SSC (Superconducting Supercollider).

[andy224]

No not today my exams are finished and I'm feeling relaxed and GOOD today. Just got to unwind and enjoy a long summer! If i was a little touchy before, please accept an apology just slightly stressed these last weeks.

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP

[TomB]

No apology andy, I wasn't referring to you.

You have FReepmail.

[Valin]

Trying to figure out what would offend someone about this?

[Gary Boldwater]

This is wonderful! Just 100 years ago man was riding animals for tranportation. Just 40 years ago man flew into space. Just 30 years ago man walked on the moon. Today, scientists completely understand the beginnings of the universe!!
The greatest leap in all of science was in giving up its old ways. The old way required scientists to set out to disprove a theory (hypothesis), after relentless testing to prove it. One contradictory experiment could undo a whole theory (hypothesis). Today, that is no longer a concern. A single test proves a theory (not a hypothesis) and new dimensions and particles are created to explain any contradictions!
In the last 25 years, no man has set foot on the moon, orbital space travel is more dangerous than ever and third world countries may eclipse America's space achievements. We are not spending enough money on government science!

[<1/1,000,000th%]

Sounds like it'll be a few years before we get a result. Unless the French decide to surrender CERN.

[js1138]

RWP memorial placemarker.

[js1138]

Today, scientists completely understand the beginnings of the universe!!

Yes, but just one of many in this amazing multiverse. ;^)

[unspun]

an 'oops, I just saw this' ping
havent' read it yet, but the title is humorous enough

[aruanan]

Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem proves that we will never be able to completely understand the universe.

No, Goedel's Incompleteness Theorem states that:

...within any rigidly logical mathematical system there are propositions (or questions) that cannot be proved or disproved on the basis of the axioms within that system and that, therefore, it is uncertain that the basic axioms of arithmetic will not give rise to contradictions.

One could paraphrase this to say that no one system is capable of fully elucidating the truths of the universe, but how many systems of human thought except for mathematics are rigidly logical?

[VadeRetro]

RWP memorial placemarker.

Right Wing Prof is opus'ed and gone? ALS and conservababblerJen are still able to delete threads by wandering in, pooping in the punchbowl, and screaming in faces? This really bites bad!

[TomB]

Trying to figure out what would offend someone about this?

I'm thinking along the lines of using the word "God" and the general origins of the universe stuff. Usually a few creationists happen along a bemoan the waste of money at something so silly.

[AD from SpringBay]

In a concrete cavern 130ft deep and bigger than the nave of Canterbury Cathedral, they will mimic the high-energy conditions that existed fractions of a second after the Big Bang to study a beam of energy a quarter of the thickness of a human hair.

This is cool and everything, even though I can't understand the application or the technology involved. I'm all for science. BUT - how do they know this thing will mimic the high-energy conditions that existed fractions of a second after the b-b? I don't know that they can make that comparison because there are no records of what the conditions of the b-b were.