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If Secession Was Illegal - then How Come...?
The Patriotist ^ | 2003 | Al Benson, Jr.

Posted on 06/12/2003 5:58:28 AM PDT by Aurelius

Over the years I've heard many rail at the South for seceding from the 'glorious Union.' They claim that Jeff Davis and all Southerners were really nothing but traitors - and some of these people were born and raised in the South and should know better, but don't, thanks to their government school 'education.'

Frank Conner, in his excellent book The South Under Siege 1830-2000 deals in some detail with the question of Davis' alleged 'treason.' In referring to the Northern leaders he noted: "They believed the most logical means of justifying the North's war would be to have the federal government convict Davis of treason against the United States. Such a conviction must presuppose that the Confederate States could not have seceded from the Union; so convicting Davis would validate the war and make it morally legitimate."

Although this was the way the federal government planned to proceed, that prolific South-hater, Thaddeus Stevens, couldn't keep his mouth shut and he let the cat out of the bag. Stevens said: "The Southerners should be treated as a conquered alien enemy...This can be done without violence to the established principles only on the theory that the Southern states were severed from the Union and were an independent government de facto and an alien enemy to be dealt with according to the laws of war...No reform can be effected in the Southern States if they have never left the Union..." And, although he did not plainly say it, what Stevens really desired was that the Christian culture of the Old South be 'reformed' into something more compatible with his beliefs. No matter how you look at it, the feds tried to have it both ways - they claimed the South was in rebellion and had never been out of the Union, but then it had to do certain things to 'get back' into the Union it had never been out of. Strange, is it not, that the 'history' books never seem to pick up on this?

At any rate, the Northern government prepared to try President Davis for treason while it had him in prison. Mr. Conner has observed that: "The War Department presented its evidence for a treason trial against Davis to a famed jurist, Francis Lieber, for his analysis. Lieber pronounced 'Davis will not be found guilty and we shall stand there completely beaten'." According to Mr. Conner, U.S. Attorney General James Speed appointed a renowned attorney, John J. Clifford, as his chief prosecutor. Clifford, after studying the government's evidence against Davis, withdrew from the case. He said he had 'grave doubts' about it. Not to be undone, Speed then appointed Richard Henry Dana, a prominent maritime lawyer, to the case. Mr. Dana also withdrew. He said basically, that as long as the North had won a military victory over the South, they should just be satisfied with that. In other words - "you won the war, boys, so don't push your luck beyond that."

Mr. Conner tells us that: "In 1866 President Johnson appointed a new U.S. attorney general, Henry Stanburg. But Stanburg wouldn't touch the case either. Thus had spoken the North's best and brightest jurists re the legitimacy of the War of Northern Aggression - even though the Jefferson Davis case offered blinding fame to the prosecutor who could prove that the South had seceded unconstitutionally." None of these bright lights from the North would touch this case with a ten-foot pole. It's not that they were dumb, in fact the reverse is true. These men knew a dead horse when they saw it and were not about to climb aboard and attempt to ride it across the treacherous stream of illegal secession. They knew better. In fact, a Northerner from New York, Charles O'Connor, became the legal counsel for Jeff Davis - without charge. That, plus the celebrity jurists from the North that refused to touch the case, told the federal government that they really had no case against Davis or secession and that Davis was merely being held as a political prisoner.

Author Richard Street, writing in The Civil War back in the 1950s said exactly the same thing. Referring to Jeff Davis, Street wrote: "He was imprisoned after the war, was never brought to trial. The North didn't dare give him a trial, knowing that a trial would establish that secession was not unconstitutional, that there had been no 'rebellion' and that the South had got a raw deal." At one point the government intimated that it would be willing to offer Davis a pardon, should he ask for one. Davis refused that and he demanded that the government either give him a pardon or give him a trial, or admit that they had dealt unjustly with him. Mr. Street said: "He died 'unpardoned' by a government that was leery of giving him a public hearing." If Davis was as guilty as they claimed, why no trial???

Had the federal government had any possible chance to convict Davis and therefore declare secession unconstitutional they would have done so in a New York minute. The fact that they diddled around and finally released him without benefit of the trial he wanted proves that the North had no real case against secession. Over 600,000 boys, both North and South, were killed or maimed so the North could fight a war of conquest over something that the South did that was neither illegal or wrong. Yet they claim the moral high ground because the 'freed' the slaves, a farce at best.


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To: Capriole
Well said.
41 posted on 06/12/2003 8:14:52 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: Tauzero
"Are we fighting the Civil War again?"

One can always hope.

Nah, you'll never get slavery back, as much as you thirst for it.

42 posted on 06/12/2003 8:18:20 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: Aurelius
A better analogy in this particular case would be that the husband's primary motive in forcing his wife back was to retain control over her paycheck.

Except in this case all the seceeding states complained first and foremost about the loss of their beloved institution of slavery.

It's funny how you neo-confederates always try to reinvent history to forget the south's main war cry was the protection of slavery.

43 posted on 06/12/2003 8:20:49 AM PDT by jlogajan
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To: jlogajan
" Nah, you'll never get slavery back, as much as you thirst for it."

Rather, it'd be a chance to end slavery.

But hey, I understand many people, like you, don't find the manacles chafing.
44 posted on 06/12/2003 8:23:26 AM PDT by Tauzero
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To: Zavien Doombringer
cooool graphic!
45 posted on 06/12/2003 8:26:18 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Kingasaurus
'Many Northerners would add the caveat that the husband forces the wife to stay in the house so he can keep her from abusing the kids, which she had been doing contunuously. Buying and selling them, even... ;) '


Don't even start. The North was just as guilty in that regard.
Using your analogy, the 'husband', if abusive, is more likely to abuse the kids than the abused 'wife'. The North would have lost greatly in tarifs and agriculture were the South to secceed. The Damn Yankees weren't as noble as you might think, nor the South as evil.
46 posted on 06/12/2003 8:26:36 AM PDT by bk1000
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To: jlogajan
'Then they get their butts whipped, the immoral institution of slavery is immediately overthrown -- and they have been calling the "whaaaambulance" ever since'



Obviously a flaming revisionist liberal expounding on what he has been told instead of researching the facts.
47 posted on 06/12/2003 8:31:15 AM PDT by bk1000
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To: Kingasaurus
Thank you for your feedback King.
Certainly the abuse of the "children" ie: the buying and selling. SHOULD have been a motivating factor in the husband's decision to punish the wife. However, the fact that the husband's family also practiced and condoned this abuse at varying times, tends to make one question the husband's true motives.
48 posted on 06/12/2003 8:32:55 AM PDT by D1X1E (Liberal...someone so open-minded that their brains have fallen out.)
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To: Capriole; Chancellor Palpatine
In my garage I have two bricks that are all that's left of a fine family home in the Shenandoah. That house belonged to my people until Sheridan's men burned it. They also dragged a kinswoman of mine from her childbed and gang-raped her when she had recently given birth. Her injuries were severe. These events had implications for my family that have lasted to the present day. Under these circumstances it's sort of hard to simply forget the War.

I take it, then, that you support slavery reparations to African-Americans.

49 posted on 06/12/2003 8:36:28 AM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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To: Capriole
"Grand Old Partisan! Walt! You're on, boys--post something bitter, irrational, and hate-filled to contribute to the conversation. "

I thought Walt was still in Time-Out.
50 posted on 06/12/2003 8:39:14 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Aurelius
Thanks for posting that excellent article. The anti-secession crowd have yet to provide an adequate answer to the question posed. If secession was illegal and unconstitutional, then the case against Davis--not to mention the entire Confederate leadership--would have been a slam-dunk.
51 posted on 06/12/2003 8:42:49 AM PDT by sheltonmac
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To: honeygrl
I thought Walt was still in Time-Out.

He's baaaack! Looky here

52 posted on 06/12/2003 8:51:02 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Aurelius
We hear a lot about secession, but what about the opposite.

Can a state be purged? What mechanism exists to eliminate a state from the union? Are we stuck with the NE states for ever?

53 posted on 06/12/2003 8:53:51 AM PDT by bert (Don't Panic!)
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To: Non-Sequitur
"But the Supreme Court did declare secession as practiced by the southern states unconstitutional in 1869?"

The self-righteous Supreme Court also ruled women have a right to "terminate unwanted fetuses", meaning nothing less than murder of the unborn. There ARE wrong rulings handed down from the SC and like they say, "possession is 90 percent ownership", so it is in determining the legality of a particular action where no precedence has been set. All rulings by our courts, absent of precedence, are indicative of the justices' attitudes (ie. their personal beliefs) on an issue and help determine and shape how they interpret the WRITTEN LAW. Do you believe they (the SC injustices) would have ruled the same had the outcome of the WoNA been a little different and the North were defeated?

I believe not....

54 posted on 06/12/2003 8:55:47 AM PDT by azhenfud
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To: stainlessbanner
"He's baaaack! Looky here "

oh well.. it was nice while it lasted.
55 posted on 06/12/2003 8:56:57 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: bert
"Can a state be purged?"

Can Califoreignia?

56 posted on 06/12/2003 9:00:11 AM PDT by azhenfud
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To: Aurelius
It probably wasn't illegal. But the South did fire on Fort Sumter, and in their infinite wisdom, manage to start a war.
57 posted on 06/12/2003 9:00:13 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Poohbah; Capriole
I take it, then, that you support slavery reparations to African-Americans.

How the heck did you get there? Did you go to yankee skools?

Capriole was giving a list of reasons to remember family history and heritage. I saw no call or claim for restitution.

58 posted on 06/12/2003 9:00:25 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (http://wardsmythe.crimsonblog.com)
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To: Tribune7
"But the South did fire on Fort Sumter..."

They did - after strictly warning Lincoln not to resupply the fort, that an attempt do do so would be considered an act of NORTHERN AGGRESSION leading to war. He tried it anyway.

59 posted on 06/12/2003 9:06:33 AM PDT by azhenfud
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To: Corin Stormhands
How the heck did you get there? Did you go to yankee skools?

The call for reparations is frequently (and, IMNHO, rightly) met on Free Republic with a response of "it took place almost 150 years ago, get over it."

Capriole is saying that "get over it" isn't a proper response.

What's his response to the Jesse Jacksons and Al Sharptons blaming slavery for (fill in the blank)?

60 posted on 06/12/2003 9:08:46 AM PDT by Poohbah (I must be all here, because I'm not all there!)
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