Posted on 06/15/2003 6:43:14 AM PDT by Pharmboy
If by smart people you mean people who acknowlege and support this system, I'm with you. But I don't see much support for this system at harvard. The Economics Dpartment at Chicago, maybe.
I like humanists and athiests much more than you do - and I'm less sweeping and less certain in my criticism of socialistism.
However, I do have big problems with current left-wing political thought...I can't stand political correctness. More generally, the Left has a basic problem; at bottom, they're trying to justify greater rewards for the meek, the weak, the dumb, the unlucky - life's losers. Not an easy task. Some very, very famous people have tried and failed on this one.
None-the-less Leftists intellectuals, if they're capable and good at their job (as opposed to incompetent, foolish, and intolerant) deserve respect.
i know a smart person when i see one - i assess how he thinks acts and talks. his social position and formal education count...but they're secondary. i don't have to agree with his politics, his religion, his ethics to judge him.
maybe you have different standards
Can you give me an example of left wing thought that is worthy of respect even if it isn't current?
I can offer some possibilities: the anti-Jim Crow movement of the 50s and 60s -- but this was really started back in the 1800s by Republicans, so I consider it an ethical issue rather than liberal or conservative. Welfare -- but this goes back at least as far as jewish law, which mandated "leavings" for the poor at harvest time.
I would argue that most of the issues with which liberals justify their supposed moral superiority are neither liberal nor conservative. they are matters of personal character.
I wouldn't call someone who is weak, meek or unlucky "losers." However, I do agree that political correctness is an attempt at social coercion. You should consider that, because frankly many points of political correctness reflect the viewpoint of socialists and atheists.
I agree that everyone deserves respect.
I'll take you literally - your mean thoughts rather than thinkers. Also, I have to be a little loose in my interpretations since ideas are cumulative - they build on the past.
How about the counter-syclic economic ideas of John Maynard Keynes? The kibbutzim of the Zionists? Fabian socialism and syndicalism? Modern trade unions? Universal health care? Social Security (even though that's usually attributed to a very conservative 19th century German)? Child labor laws? Environmental preservation? General tolerance (although this one too has many fathers)?
That's just off the top of my head. Also the anti-slavery laws which you attribute to Republicans - who were very left-wing by the standards of the time. Keep in mind also that Adam Smith and capitalism represented Left-wing liberals in his day. On the right were aristocrats, monarchists, and much different economic ideas.
That was my earning. Your adversaries can earn your respect. In less barbarous times, among less barbarous peoples, warriors often honored their foes if they displayed courage and skill in combat.
I'd like to see that one. Population control was on everyone's mind and they were much less politically correct, much more direct about their ideas and methods.
These are good ideas? I think what you have is a laundry list of good intentions, but things that don't survive in application. Social security, basically a forced retirement investment, cannot survive its Ponzi financing without an expanding economy, so why not put the investments directly in mutual funds? Trade unions are important in an era when corporations are allowed to run like organized crime, but unions are essentially the employers of their members, just like temporary employment agencies. So who protects the worker against the union, which is now the employer?
Basically I'm dubious of any idea that involves involuntary subscription.
Yah. True. But not necessarily so - that's just the direction of modern-day leftist thinking. It began in the '60s when freedom of opportunity didn't lead immediately to equality of result. That's where the Lefties lost me...and a lot of others.
More generally, social coercion comes with every social system. Choose your poison.
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