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Yes, They Were Guilty. But of What Exactly? [NYT FINALLY admits Rosenbergs were guilty!]
NY Times ^ | June 15, 2003 | SAM ROBERTS

Posted on 06/15/2003 6:43:14 AM PDT by Pharmboy

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To: liberallarry
How about the counter-syclic economic ideas of John Maynard Keynes?

A somewhat useful idea totally corrupted government by becoming the sole purpose, in many ways, of government. Take money from people and pretend to do them a favor by giving some of it back now and then.

The kibbutzim of the Zionists?

Bolshevikism combined with an ethnic/religious twist. I don't care if any religious group form such communes and keeps to itself. When they get into politics, I worry. A pity Israel did it. Had they embraced liberty from the start, they would probably not be in the mess they are today. The country could have been the jewel of the mideast. So, no thanks.

Fabian socialism . . .?

The ultimate useful idiots. Admirers of Mao and every other communist con man who comes down the path. Gramscian termites who undermine everything good, decent and honest. Anti-Christian bigots.

Modern trade unions?

Public employee unions are the result. And they dominate unions today. Economic fascism. Government unions buying up Wall street. Government employees lobbying for more government.

Universal health care?

I would rather sit under a tree and drink myself to death.

Social Security ?

Ponzi scheme. Despicable kids washing dishes are paying for the meals of those who eat at four star restaurants.

Child labor laws?

Well you got one right.

Environmental preservation?

The left's way of stealing private property. Fascistic. The best way to preserve the environment is to create wealth.

What is the deal here? Your screen name seems appropiate. I thought this forum wasn't designed--as I have done above and you do a lot it appears--to debate the merits of liberalism. Thought we were here to get liberals out of the body politic.

301 posted on 06/17/2003 1:58:25 PM PDT by DPB101 (New York Times Tom Wicker: There is " not much moral choice" between Pol Pot and Lon Nol.)
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To: js1138
I have nothing against your suggestions for improvement...but

The kibbutziks built Israel with blood and sweat - a lot more than just good intentions
Social Security doesn't have to be a Ponzi scheme
Trade unions are an attempt to get employers to share the wealth. That only works under favorable conditions. Otherwise they become guilds, mafias, or unworkeable (if employers are forced to compete against others employing non-union labor)
and so on.

Socially, righties are for the status quo, lefties for change. I don't see how you can devalue either in any general way.

302 posted on 06/17/2003 2:01:41 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Social Security doesn't have to be a Ponzi scheme.

It could be made into a chain letter, like medicare.

303 posted on 06/17/2003 2:14:30 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: liberallarry
Larry, did I see a glimpse of moral relativism in your view?
304 posted on 06/17/2003 2:43:26 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: MEG33
Larry, did I see a glimpse of moral relativism in your view?

Probably. I am not what one would normally call a moral relativist - but I'm not a moral absolutist either.

305 posted on 06/17/2003 2:57:34 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: Doctor Stochastic
It could be made into a chain letter, like medicare

When I look at the opponents of no-growth, slow-growth, or sustainable growth I don't see a bunch of doddering old farts.

Maybe all of American capitalism, or all of capitalism, or all modern social systems are just elaborate Ponzi schemes. Maybe the Luddites were right.

306 posted on 06/17/2003 3:01:10 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: MEG33
One wonders if some of Russell's voracious sexual capers resulted his brain becoming delusional. He worshiped the idea of a one-world government where those such as he would rule.

His 1920 visit to Russia produced ideas that although Bolshevism was tyranical, it was the right government for the Russians.

He stated that the US was more evil than Russia and, although he nagged the West to disarm, he did not so with the Bolsheviks.
307 posted on 06/17/2003 5:50:32 PM PDT by HISSKGB
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To: DPB101
What is the deal here? Your screen name seems appropiate. I thought this forum wasn't designed--as I have done above and you do a lot it appears--to debate the merits of liberalism. Thought we were here to get liberals out of the body politic.

I was responding to a very specific question...asking me to name Left-wing ideas with merit. You appear offended by that - so I'll honor your desire not continue in this direction.

As to my more general responses Jim Robinson continues to take my money, no-one has asked me to leave, and many have been as happy to debate me as I have been to debate them.

308 posted on 06/17/2003 5:55:18 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
You are a love. I am a Jew like you; and, like you, I do not deal in denial. I am an American FIRST, and a Jew second. And, I love my wife.
309 posted on 06/17/2003 5:56:47 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
Bohr's Soviet contact for passing nuclear secrets was physicist and spy, Yakov Terletsky.
310 posted on 06/17/2003 6:16:33 PM PDT by HISSKGB
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To: aculeus
There really aren't too many people more awful than the horrible Frank Rich...you are so right.
311 posted on 06/17/2003 6:53:11 PM PDT by Pharmboy (Dems lie 'cause they have to...)
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To: I_Love_My_Husband
So why did he and the other liberals work on it? They opposed it and have said so.

Just saw this post. Sorry. They worked on it because they thought Hitler was working on it and they couldn't allow him to get it first. Read Einstein's 1940 letter to Roosevelt...or Feynman's autobiography.

But they never liked it, they always had second thoughts, and their fears and doubts intensified when its use was proposed after Hitler was defeated.

312 posted on 06/17/2003 7:38:10 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: HISSKGB
I have now been introduced to Russell's thinking and the more I know the less I like.
313 posted on 06/17/2003 8:04:00 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Doctor Stochastic
Well, It's what Dr. Szilard told my grandmother, in my presence.
314 posted on 06/17/2003 9:47:01 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: liberallarry
The scientists attitude they knew best about sharing the atom bomb secrets for the greater good of mankind does not impress me.I believe their brilliant accomplishments in the scientific field do not translate when it comes to protecting my nations interest.I have read enough today to confirm my doubts about their ability to make national security a priority.They don't like security today at Los Alamos.Why should I be surprised about past perfidy.While most did not spy,they were useful idiots.
315 posted on 06/17/2003 10:05:20 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: nopardons
Perhaps that what Szilard said. Of course, Szilard didn't work at Los Alamos. I can only go by what the guys there have told me. Unfortunately, my best contacts have passed on by now.
316 posted on 06/17/2003 10:33:37 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: liberallarry
Russell was a FABIAN SOCIALIST .He was only against the USA and England having nukes ... NOT against the USSR having them.

Einstein may have been a brilliant scientist; he wasn't a brilliant anything else.

Your " exemplars " are more tarnished than you know. Just give it up, or go over to DU.

317 posted on 06/17/2003 10:34:38 PM PDT by nopardons
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To: MEG33
They don't like security today at Los Alamos.

False.

318 posted on 06/17/2003 10:34:59 PM PDT by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: MEG33
They were useful idiots

It's a close call. Stalin's creatures certainly thought they were. But they were right about the bomb's dangers, right about the need for international control, right about the arms race, and - most important - right that the secret couldn't be kept.

319 posted on 06/17/2003 10:51:31 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
" Brilliant " men and especially scientists , aren't neccessarily " brilliant " when it comes to everything else. You don't even know much about Leo Szilard, yet, because you like what he said in one article, you suppose that he knew more and better than those of us here on this thread. Again, you're dead wrong !

Dr. Szilard wasn't all that " brilliant " about a lot of things. He had, many years prior to the Manhattam project, figured out the rudiments of A-Bomb. He wrote it all down and then did nothing much with it. Much of his life, both scientific and other, was like that. He was a sacastic man, had a biting sense of " humor ", and, from boyhood, had a wish to save the world. He was also something of an eccentric and NO, he did NOT really understand politics, the Russians, nor have a " clearer and better view of the world than you and I ". You only assume this to be a fact.

320 posted on 06/17/2003 10:51:52 PM PDT by nopardons
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